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Before the Holy Father left Rome, I told a number of journalists that they shouldn’t be surprised if the pope was very well received in America. Little did I know. As I said in the previous post, I believed that a great deal of Catholic life is below the radar of most press coverage, which – naturally enough – tends to focus on problems and conflicts. The problems and conflicts exist, of course, but they are a relatively small part of a much bigger story, and that bigger story does not lend itself to media coverage…
Unless something special happens. The special something may be the death and election of a pope – drawing not only enormous crowds of believers but also crowds of reporters to Rome at the same time. The experience in Rome in April of 2005 was an eye-opener. The vision of those prayerful and enthusiastic crowds, drawn largely by the personality and holiness of John Paul II, is what caused Benedict XVI to assert: the Church is alive; the Church is young.
Something similar seems to have happened during the U.S. trip. Reporters and huge crowds of happy Catholic believers were thrown together in a festive atmosphere without the filter of press releases and communications offices and the story-shaping lens of conflict. Reporters were in a position to simply write what they saw. As everyone knows, on this trip, the theme of conflict was present from the beginning, and it was given its due, but it gradually fell by the wayside as that larger, ordinarily-less-tangible story – the faith of countless Catholic believers Рgot told.
The trip did an enormous amount of good – for the US, for Australia (where they are preparing to host the Roman Pontiff at World Youth Day), for the world…
And, it seems, for the pope himself, because, today, in Rome, something else remarkable happened. In his Regina Coeli message, Benedict XVI credited the Catholics of the U.S. with confirming his own hope. Imagine, the sheep confirming the hope of the shepherd. This is what he said (the translation is my own):
“I thank God because He blessed abundantly this singular missionary experience of mine and deigned to make me an instrument of Christian hope for that Church and for that country. At the same time, I thank Him because I was myself confirmed in hope by the Catholics of America: indeed, I found a great vitality and a firm desire to live and bear witness to the faith in Jesus. On Wednesday, in the general audience, I will speak more at length about my visit to America.”
(Original Italian: “Ringrazio Dio perch?© ha benedetto largamente questa mia singolare esperienza missionaria e mi ha concesso di farmi strumento della speranza di Cristo per quella Chiesa e per quel Paese. In pari tempo lo ringrazio perch?© io stesso sono stato confermato nella speranza dai cattolici americani: ho trovato infatti una grande vitalit?† e la decisa volont?† di vivere e testimoniare la fede in Ges??. Mercoled?¨ prossimo, durante l‚ÄôUdienza generale, mi propongo di soffermarmi pi?? ampiamente su questa mia visita in America.”)
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Needless to say (so I’ll say it), stay tuned for that Wednesday audience!
As it happens, I will be there on Wednesday with a crowd of about 300 Catholic communications folk who are attending a three-day international conference sponsored by my department at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross. Just the right crowd for the pope’s message.
It promises to be a great conference, by the way (I was not involved in organizing it, so I can brag). Among the speakers will be Holland’s amazing podcasting priest, Fr. Roderick Vonhogen, and John Allen – and many others from France, Australia, Peru, Germany, England and the US (not to mention Italy and Spain). Check it out at: http://www.pusc.it/csi/conv/conv08
Prayers for everyone in attendance for the Wednesday audience, those present mostly- and for all watching.
Thank you for the link Father.
Sounds like an interesting conference, Father. Good luck. Please let us know how it goes.
Terribly sorry, folks, for the recent problems with the comments section. Being all caught up in the conference at the university for the last few days, I had no idea that anything was wrong. When I checked out the blog I just noticed that there had only been three comments.
The conference was a huge success. It was mentioned during the audience with the Holy Father in St. Peter’s Square on Wednesday, when he did indeed talk at length about the trip to the US.
Today, I heard an interesting tidbit about the Holy Father from someone who sees him up close frequently in ceremonies at St. Peter’s. On Sunday, during ordinations in the basilica, for the first time that this person ever remembers, Benedict, on his way back to the sacristy after a Mass in the basilica, stopped to greet people, blessing and kissing babies. The person in question thought that this novelty was a direct result of the pope’s experience in the US and reinforced awareness of people’s need for personal contact with the successor of Peter.
Sounds plausible to me.
Should probably add that the person in question is not an American, but rather a neutral European observer….
I am the bad penny who keeps popping up..
Blessing and kissing babies…. yes. It does happen here. It always touched my heart deeply, the times when my child was blessed this way, from an ordinary parish priest.
She was singing in the yard today: “This is “a” day, “a glorious day”, “lettuce” “rejoin” and be glad” LOL!!!!
“making it up as she goes”
We did have salad today, and it was up to 70 degrees, so I guess she was being creative.
Holy Father sounds like a delightful shepherd!
When can you go on vacation if ever Father? Please tell me you can?
Arn, Jerry?
Hello?
We are the only posting Americans I can recall.
Good morning all,
Glad all is well with the blog again..
Good to hear the conference was a success father Wauck..
We ‘north’ Europeans are a *formal* lot.. kissing strangers does not come easy… it has become more of a, done thing, now though..
I expect Pope Benedikt is of “the old guard”,despite living in Rome for some time, old customs die hard…. Germans are still quite reserved,even my children were brought up to;- shake hands,untill the age of 14,the boy would clap his heels together,the girl would curtsey.. only close relations would kiss on the cheek (not like in Italy twice,but only once).
Kissing ones friends when one meets is now quite acceptable,by the younger generation… But still not so by the over 50ties.. I, being an Italian through marriage (20+years), am ofcourse an *exception to the rule*
As yesterday was Ascension.-day it was a holliday here (1st.May.. Labor day and *father’s day*),I believe it was not in England (nor in Italy?),anyway the school is closed again today,so I have an extra day off work.. yipee!Which we will spend visiting the *children*… soooooo, lunch,afternoon coffee and cake,evening meal are catered for.. double yipee!!!!
Have a nice day all…
Hi Helen,
I hope I didn’t say anything to offend you (or to make you think I wasn’t an American). Please add me to your list. By the way, I’m guessing Father John hasn’t forgotten his American roots. Have you, Father?
Tony
“…or to make you think I wasn‚Äôt an American…”– it may be Helen’s confused b/c you keep making references to Tim Hortons!
“neutral European observer”– a Swiss one, Father?
Amusing point about the”American” business: many Latin Americans are deeply offended when the word “American” is used as synonymous with “citizen of the U.S.A.” When confronted with this reaction, I point out that “America” is actually part of the official name of the country; it is how we normally identify ourselves, just as Brazilians think of themselves as Brazilians, Mexians as Mexicans, Colombians as Colombians, etc. The Italians, though, use “American” as we Americans do, not as making us the sole representatives of two continents – another point of confusion for some Europeans, for whom North and South American are only one continent – but as being a short way of saying United States of America.
Hmmm, yes, I guess I do have American roots, though, after 13 years over here, Rome is by far the city in the world I know best. I’ve lived here more than twice as long as I’ve lived anywhere else (as an adult).
By the way, yesterday (the feast of the Ascension in the Vatican), one of the canon law professors of my university – Juan Ignacio Arrieta – was ordained a bishop in St. Peter’s Basilica. He is now the under-secretary of the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts. During the ceremony, as in priestly ordinations, a litany of saints is sung, and, yesterday, for the first time in St. Peter’s Basilica, the name of St. Josemaria Escriva was sung. A beautiful moment.
Here I am, Helen, Sandra, Tony, et alia. Tried getting on while the comments were temporarily indisposed, or on hiatus, or something. Isn’t it Catherine of Siena who’s the patron saint of the Internet (being a still, for the moment until I can talk to an unshockable confessor, but inching ever closer home, fallen-away Catlick, I’m not sure).
Lettuce rejoice! Yes indeed!!!
Like “Gladly, the cross-eyed bear” (Gladly, the cross I’d bear), or…
“Low in the gravy lay” (Lo, in the grave He lay)
There are millions more for which I will probably spend time repenting if I’m lucky enough to make it to Purgatorio.
Please keep me in your prayers, friends: we sing the Faure Requiem this Sunday, with full orchestra and festival choir of about 60 voices, during the Presbyterian worship service. I’ve been verrrrry insistent with my singers that this is NOT a concert, NOT a performance: that this is an offering of our hearts and minds to the Loving Father. Now just pray that the conductor keeps his wits (half wits, maybe?) about him… especially at tomorrow’s dress rehearsal. Dress rehearsals always go badly
BTW, when I was working years ago in Mexico City for an international organization of Catholic business leaders called Legatus, I was roundly and regularly reminded that their nation is ALSO the United States… Los Estados Unidos de Mexico… and that they too were “norteamericanos.”
All told, I’d rather be Bayerisch … oder Oesterreichisch.
Yesterday was also an interesting convergence, for devotees of the Holy Family
Ascension Day (Jesus)
First of May (Mary’s month)
Feast of Joseph the Worker (Joseph)
But all I could think of was my departed Irish grandmother:” Jesus, Mary and Joseph!” was her ultimate expression of exasperation, frequently voiced in my direction.
Of course, grandmotherly exasperation is better than faux French Pythonesque taunts in my general direction.
Tony, I am holding your Timbits hostage in the fridge, awaiting my next meeting with our mutual friend.
Okay: basta! I MUST go back to playing through the score, or I’ll be no good to anyone. “Finish at least one thing you start…”
Love to all.
Michelle and Jerry, what’s with all this “Timbits” talk? Please? Enough already. Let it go.
There are millions more for which I will probably spend time repenting if I’m lucky enough to make it to Purgatorio.
Jerry, I don’t think I’ll ever go skeet shooting with you. Your aim is really dangerously low. If you end hit something where you’re currently aiming, someone’s likely to get hurt.
Nice video summary of the Holy Father’s US visit:
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=27509
Plus St. Josemaria on faith:
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=27409
Happy Feast of the Ascension tomorrow! Yes, I’m a little late, but in the Philippines the Feast of the Ascension has been transferred to the Sunday following. I guess it makes is more convenient for people to fulfill this holy day of obligation.
I’m still wondering whether or not the Holy Father will make a side trip here going to or coming from Australia… I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Yes, Jerry, there was quite a lot to preach about on Thursday – for those of us who had to preach.
Living with Mexicans for the last 13 years, I have had the same thing – the “Los Estados Unidos de Mexico” business – pointed out to me many times. It really confirms my point, though: while it is perfectly normal for a US citizen to respond to the question, “Where are you from?” with the answer “The United States”, no Mexican would ever do so. They think of themselves as being from “Mexico,” not from the U.S.M. In fact, when a Mexican says “los Estados Unidos” – even in Spanish – he is referring to his neighbors to the north, not to his own country. Ditto for the Italians: “gli Stati Uniti” refers only to the USA, not to any old states that are united The problem stems from the awkwardness of calling ourselves “United Statesians” or “United States of Americans” … or something like that. Much easier (and more natural in English) to simply go with final word of the country’s name: Americans.
As you can see, I’ve thought about this way too much!
Tony,
I’m a lousy shot anyway. But your point is well taken: I think part of the mindset I lost when I left the Church (and which I hope I’ll regain once I come back) is a sort of soteriological minimalism, the eternal analogy of what every PhD student knows, “Cs get degrees.” Thank you for the encouragement to aim high(er).
About Catherine of Siena… she’s the reason we have our department’s annual conference in late April. In fact, she’s the patron saint of our School of Church Communications. On the second day of the conference, Archbishop Cieli of the Pontifical Council for Social Communications celebrated Mass for all the participants in the church of Sant Maria sopra Minerva, where St. Catherine is buried under the high altar.
In a room off the sacristy in the church, they have the frescoed walls – detached and transported into the church – of the room in which St. Catherine died, in a house only about a block away, which is now a theater.
Jerry, St Josemaria said once (from memory here) “out of 100 souls we are interested in 100 of them”. Beyond the immediate and wonderfully optimistic point of this holy ambition, is a broader and more loving point that the Catholic Church is very much focused on the “lateral” effects and responsibilities of each person’s call to canonizable holiness. It’s not just “me and Jesus”…we each have an eternally consequential responsibility for each other. Now that’s shooting high.
In fact, the devil would very much want us just focused on “C’s get degrees” and “me and Jesus” as they low shooting ambitions create a lukewarmeess and selfishness in the flock.
One saved thought.
If I were the devil, I’d work to make people think 3 things.
1. Salvation is easy (C’s get degrees)
and/or
2. Salvation is already in hand/complete/done (“once saved always saved”)
3. Me and Jesus (everyone on their own, no lateral responsibility, split the flock slowly)
And here’s a method to further weaken us: Split the source of authority (Bible only, vs. Traditiona and Bible).
If were a spiritual tactician…this would be a perfect, mutually reinforcing course of action to follow.
Bill, I feel like I’m reading Screwtape’s private notes before he starts writing to Wormwood.
I should clarify and say that I meant that as a compliment (comparing your approatch to CS Lewis, not comparing your thinking to Screwtape, that is).
Hi Bill, nice to see someone else here.
Tony, mea culpa. Michelle was correct. I am sorry.
Jerry, I am so glad to read your posts. The “older couple” was seated behind us today, and they wondered why the little one did not sing much today. She was distracted, seeing a few of her classmates in attendance, and there were less people in the choir. Purgatory? Well I wouldn’t worry about that much. I would worry about skeet shooting with me.
Not the pastor, or my favorite priest, but- still I am stinging by the rejection of the offer.
Some here may recall me mentioning I did that in my past life, along with shooting pool.
Please keep me in your prayers, as I feel rather rejected now. I offered to go door to door, to promote the Gospel, and a priest in my parish shot me down.
The little one even offered to go with me.
Who could say no to her?
I am hurt.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!
(in the direction of this priest)
Jerry, you crack me up.
Please come to Chicago, and help us!
Love,
Your sister in Christ,
Helen
Friends,
Many thanks for your prayers. The Faure went wonderfully well this morning, and while I’m exhausted I’m grateful as well.
Bill, let me attempt to be clear(er). I’m a “fallen away” Catholic, a recovering alkie (17 years so far), the survivor of a soi disant “ecumenical covenant community,” and the divorced (not by my choice) father of five, three of whom I’ve raised. Despite my distance from Home/Rome — and those who’ve read my posts before have hopefully picked up that I’m working pretty assiduously to close the distance (I moved, not God) — I’ve been fortunate to be on the receiving end of God’s grace.
Those who know me at least a little (pardon me for sounding defensive here) may also note that I have a penchant for bad puns, occasionally overwrought metaphors, and generally not taking myself too seriously. It is in that context that my comments regarding shooting low should be taken, and if somehow I’ve given the impression that (a) I don’t think heroic living is worth pursuing, or (b) that God’s grace is not sufficient, when mediated through the Church and received with humility and willingness to cooperate with it, to bring me to Heaven, then I ask your forgiveness.
Perhaps I deserve the chiding, rather than charity. Lord knows I’m the deficient one here, not Christ or his Church. All the same, it does make the prospect of making a general confession in the near future and reconciling with y’all a wee bit off-putting.
Again, sorry for the defensive tone. I’ll try to take my medicine like a big boy from now on.
Helen, you are in my prayers. Keep asking. One robin doesn’t make a spring; one clerical rejection doesn’t mean you’re not wanted or valued. Look at the crucifix and remind yourself that He suffered, bled and died out of Love–for you, Helen, for you!
P.S. to Helen: the firm that publishes my music for the Church (and soon, a CD of it as well) is actually IN Chicago, and I visit there periodically. I will be sure to let you know when I’ll be coming out your way next!
Jerry, I think I unwittingly started the whole thing with my comment about your aim being too low, in response to you wishing you’ll be lucky enough to get to Purgatory.
I don’t know Bill but it sounds like he’s thinking the same way I meant my comments, which were to encourage rather than to criticize. So, in other words, when you say “Perhaps I deserve the chiding, rather than charity,” I’d say there’s actually no chiding and just charity to begin with.
Cheers,
Tony
Jerry,
You are my brother in Christ, and you are a blessing to us all.
I passed my chapter for today! (online study)
You are so right, I should not let myself be upset so.
Jerry,
1).You are a “breath of fresh air”
2).I am sure you are *serious” about your “reconciliation” wishes..
3).You would probaly not be on this forum so long if not!!
Taking our-selves too seriously!!!!!
Well IMHO.. there is too much of that going on in all walks of life.. It’s God we should take seriously (which,obviously you do)
Jerry,we all have our faults,some trivial,some less so,we admit (here) to some, many we,understandably, do not care to.Your *story* is in no way unique,as you well know.
My 1st husband was and still is,an alcoholic (very violent) which led to my divorcing him..
I am still,on that loooong jurney back to *Rome*. I hope you make it more quickly than I..
This is not a confessional,it’s a blog… the aim of which, I imagine has *mutated* (in the best sense) from, a discussion about the efects of literaure (movies) with regards to religion,to a sort of friendly exchange of opinions,thoughts on a wide range of other topics.. As long as we keep our comments civil,I personally find a good spirted bit of jesting keeps us all from “taking ourselves too seriously”. Don’t you think?
Finally, I like your sense of humor..
>”lucky enough to get to purgatory”
Looks like a part of my comment has *vanished* again..
I wrote the following;-
There are three “levels” the first Heaven, second Purgatory,and third HELL..
The third is most probaly NOT on our “would like to achive list” the first,is for most “WANT to achive” the second………….
Well I expect that will be the level in which most will be… which does not mean we should not strive as best we can to reach *the top*.. But in the end it will be God who decides,when observing our own efforts in this life..
Bill I join Helen in wellcoming you..
Thank you all for the warm welcome.
Jerry…wonderfully well put. I wish my best-day prayers were as well ordered as your blog comments! So much heart. It sounds like you’re closing any distance that may have opened up between you and the Lord over the years. You’re “beginning again”, you’re sincere,..and you’re thinking about Confession. May you follow through on that General Confession if you haven’t already done so.
God Bless you all.
Y’all: many thanks for your compassion and understanding, especially when I’m being whiny in print. If any apologies are needed they’re most likely from my end for being a bit thin-skinned. As my Irish grandmother (GBGTH = God be good to her) used to say, “ev’ry blessing carries its own curse;” not good theology of course, but the same sensitivity that makes me a good conductor can lead all too easily to reading chiding where only charity is.
And the presumption to think that I could possibly divine another’s motives! Sorry Tony, Bill. One of the things that I find attractive about The Work, in fact, is precisely the centrality of Divine Filiation and a call to radical holiness but with an ordinary style. I suspect that somewhere in my early catechetical training I was strongly cautioned against the sin of presumption (my father, a convert himself, used to say that to assume makes an ass of u and me), hence the habit of aiming low.
But I’ve been disabused of that notion, and glad of it.
Sandra, my heart goes out to you. I know how much detestation my drinking wrought on my family; it’s taken years to heal some of it. But grace abounds, and progress is possible (I’m only HALF the neurotic I was 17 years ago!). Here’s a deal: I’ll pray for your journey if you pray for mine.
Regards to one and all.
spell correction: devastation, please, not detestation. Although there is some of that, probably, too. Oy.
Jerry….you’re on!!!
After much devastation,and as much determination,we will reach our destination…
Was that *poetry*.. wow!!!
The sun is shining,and I am off to clean up in the garden……….. but first…
a little, well earned, rest on the sun bed!!!
Take care all….
Glancing through the “Breaking Bread” with daily Mass Propers.
My questions for the day: am I the only one who detests “Morning has Broken”? who can hear it without thinking of Cat Stevens? Then, of course I automatically connect that to Muslims. Can’t help it. Last thing I want to think about at Mass frankly.
Also, as nice as the story is behind Amazing Grace, and the good Methodist preacher, why do we sing it at Mass?
Not a big deal but really. But, today is my list of complaints so I will add it in. And, if I hear “Soon and very Soon” one more time (and I will) I simply tune out. Its a horrible song and not one that anyone should have to be subjected to as often as we are. I liken it to torture at this point. Okay, I always have something negative to say. But, it sure feels better to get it out.
Sandra, how can we say that it only matters what God thinks without presuming to know what He does think? I sure dont want a God that I can figure out.
Ps to Sandra,
Not to be mean- but that is precisely why I love being a Catholic. Its far too tiring to subject all things to my personal tests or bible interpretations. All the guesswork and scrutiny goes out the window. One must be willing to be very very trusting to do that. Picture someone standing behind you telling you its okay to fall backward and they will catch you. And, you don’t personally know that individual. Not the best way to say it maybe but what the heck.
Sun bed? Is that like a hammock? Or an enterior cheaters tan oven?
Hi Helen…
Well, we DO know what God thinks.. at least what he expects of us,do we not?
It is, in the Bible… The other thing in the Bible is the promise that He will be there for us,even if we do
>.. I can not imagine,that there are many who, have not at least once “fallen”…That is part of being human…
Falling is not the problem,the problem that faces us all is,being able to see the *stumbling* pittholes, and try to avoid them next time..That is what God expects of us..We try our best and hope that we can live as He would want us to.. Love,Faith and most of all charity are the things that we should try to show to all we meet.. this is not easy,for if it was, we would not *fall* again and again… Once saved allways saved would then be true..
Going to Mass and praying every day is a good thing and helps keep us on the right road… but without the above mentioned, that does not count for much does it?? God has done so much over the centuries to help us to know His will.. He sent His Son to deliver His message of redemption, including the *instuctions* of how best to achive this.. and the thing that Christ asked of us was to “Love thy neighbour as thyself,but God above all things” Clear message I would think.. ?
If we can not imagine willfully harming ourselves,then we should not harm others,if we wish good on ourselves we should wish good on others,If we *love* ourselves we should love others….
If we love GOD above all others, then we would naturally want to please HIM, by doing the other three..
I personally, do not think that, how many times I go to Mass or how many times I recieve Holy Communion, in a week,month,year is the only thing that counts, or that this alone will guarantee my redemption.. .. It is what is in my heart while doing all of those things, and especially during my every day life when not in prayer or at Mass…
Did not Christ say “not all who call, *Lord,Lord*, will enter the kingdom of Heaven”
Now to the *sunbed* It is a Liegestuhl = a sun chair for the garden which you can stretch out on flat..
with a nice thickly padded full length cushion.. very *cushy*.. I’ll send you a pic in an e-mail… as a *penance* for thinking I would *cheat*
But now, I have to go to the Garden-centre to get some soil for my outdoor pot-plants…
’till later…
Helen……. The part that is missing is, “fall b*ck wa*ds”
every time I repeat a phrase that another has used it just “disapears”… sorry
Perhaps Father Wauck could explain this for me ????
Sandra, I dont think anyone claims that going to daily Mass, or partaking of the eucharist as often as possible(worthily of course) or praying constantly is a “gaurantee” of anything, so I am not sure why on earth you must repeat that mantra over and over again as if to make sure none of us or anyone else forgets that. I do realize your viewpoint on the sacraments is one that you feel/believe them to range from optional to irrelevant in your particular jugement. Well, that’s all based on your personal opinion/interpretation. Of course, we are all intitled to do so. I place myself where I belong, as unqualifyed to reject the Church based on my feelings/opinions/interpretations, but that’s me.
He will be there for us if we fall backwards… certainly. But, will we be there for Him? Saying we cant find the time to be with Him sure does not reflect that does it?
I’m as mystified as you are, Sandra, about the missing words. I confess humbly to being a technological illiterate, so I’ll have to ask our friend Nokia for some advice on this one.
About “Morning Has Broken”… I’m with you, Helen. Doesn’t matter who sings it. Just a bit too saccharine and cloying for my taste. Having said that, I should add that I like quite a few Cat Stevens songs and – to my shame – once played the guitar in a version of “My Sweet Lord” during Mass (mitigating circumstance: I was in grade school.)
Sorry to keep posting to you Sandra but- we are expected minimally to keep the Lord’s Day Holy. Minimally. That is in the bible also. You should, if you get the chance print off Dies Domini from the Holy See, and read it while on that sun bed.
Okay, Sandra, you’re on!
FWIW, here are some further reasons to sing Morning Has Broken somewhere other than Mass (say, at a Solstice celebration somewhere, mebbe): the first and second verses seem to place a direct correspondence between Eden and Creation with the present day, as if the Fall, the Banishment, Original Sin, and the Redemptive Passion of Christ are somehow superfluous (or simply immaterial).
The final verse (“mine is the sunlight,” &c.) makes the same error that I so frequently encounter in the “praise and worship choruses” that are increasingly prevalent today: that it’s all about me, not us; about me and Jesus, not the Body the Church in union with its Head. The “I-strain” it exhibits is remarkable for its inherent hubris, if nothing else. Oh, and Eleanor Farjeon, who authored the words, began her career with the interestingly-titled work “Pan-Worship and Other Poems” (1908).
Okay. Taking off my “elitist” church musician’s hat now. Father John, I’d say having to put up with my posts more than ameliorates any remaining temporal punishment engendered for playing George Harrison’s paean to Krishna.
My “day off” work is done — thank you notes to the orchestra and soloists written, music stands returned, music all filed: and some time to read (working on Fr. Thomas Dubay’s wonderful book, “The Evidential Power of Beauty”). And pray the Rosary, something I’ve been doing daily for about a month or so now. Not much of an Episcopalian anymore, am I?
Anyway: Amazing Grace is a powerful testimony of conversion, I think, and certainly appropriate for singing during one’s personal prayer time. And the back story behind Fr. John Newton’s conversion from slave ship captain to Anglican clergyman (he was a friend of the Wesleys, but like them never left the C of E) is an amazing one, surely.
But as a congregational hymn? In the context of a corporate act of worship when all assembled join in “mystic, sweet communion with those whose work is done,” with the saints and angels and prophets and martyrs in one cosmic unbroken hymn of praise and sacrifice, offered in the power of the Holy Spirit to the Father through the mediating grace of the Son, acting in persona Christi through the priest?
Not so much, as my kids might say.
That, again, is the whole point about the importance of text in hymnody. It has to match the reality of the action. It has to tell the truth about what is taking place. It seems to me that part of that truth is that the Eucharist is not a “me” moment. It’s perhaps something more like a “we” moment, but even that misses the central point, IMHO. The heart of it, is that it’s more than that. It’s a moment outside of time (better, an intersection between time/space and eternity, the truest of all true things). And it’s a moment that doesn’t belong to us, but to the One Who Loves us and gives Himself to us. It’s not “my” Mass, or even “our” Mass. In this covenant, we are the weaker parties.
This is why people who approach Mass as something individuated, as if the entire sanctuary were a gathering of 10 or 100 or 1000 people all having individual encounters with Christ, are missing something. He comes to each of us (well, you, since I can’t receive Him until I’m reconciled): that’s unquestionably true. But yet there are parts where all of us do something together, I think.
Fr. Louis Bouyer in his work on Liturgical Piety (and Fr. Josef Jungmann, in The Mass of the Roman Rite) are far more articulate than what I’ve just tried to say, and far more reliable. But that’s why Amazing Grace doesn’t work too well: not because what it says isn’t true, but because it doesn’t say enough.
Ack. Too many words. Again. Mea culpa.
Father, I fall backwards when I read that you played Cat Stevens at Mass– until I saw grade school. Unless it was mandatory, I’m still saying “Yuck.”
Hey everyone, “fall backwards” works now. Sandra, try again!!
Sandra, I think the Liegestuhl is what Americans call a “chaise lounge.” All the exciting details about it can be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaise_longue.
Tony, leave it to you to summarise way too many words of mine with perfect precision: “yuck.” You da man.
Thanks for the corroboration on Morning Has Broken, Jerry. I’m sure I was intuiting the pan-worship background all along.
Just for the record, Tony, I never played “the Cat” at Mass – just George Harrison. No need to make it worse than it already is!
Several cheers for Louis Bouyer. I’m delighted to see him make an appearance on the blog. Can’t recommend him highly enough.
You’re welcome, Father. He and Jungmann are both reliable guides. Next up on the overdue appearance list: Dom Marmion.
Jerry, I really have been learning quite a bit from your posts. I just wanted to thank you for sharing the knowledge you have on these subjects. Mom mailed to me an old book, “The Liturgy Documents” a parish resource and I am going to crack it open today. Be ready in case I have questions okay? I couldn’t agree with you more on the its not about me thing. I can’t wait to tell mom about the pan worship thing. She will toss her copy out the window now.
Sorry, Father. I really do hear what you’re saying, and I really do agree with the assessment. But at the same time, what does it say about “that era” when we can quite legitimately “defend” our position with claims like “Hey, it was Harrison, not Cat.”
It makes the absolutist in me a little squeamish to say “well, given the times, this wasn’t as bad as what could’ve been.”
The good old days really always weren’t, were they?
In the forward: …..This document also provides us with a wide variety of theological perspectives in understanding the Mass, sensitive to the emerging ecumenical consensus about the eucharist at that time as well as to the main lines in our Roman Catholic tradition.
???? :0 What the heck?
What in fact, is/was the ecumenical “consensus” about the eucharist exactly and excuse me, but why do we need to be “sensitive” to it? Yuck.
(changing the topic to divert the heat off Father)
Helen, thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure how much I can help, but I promise that I’ll try, and let wiser heads (like those with pontifical degrees, ahem) amend what I may get wrong. But let’s start with an old church musicians’ joke:
Q: What’s the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist?
A: You can usually negotiate with a terrorist.
(Since I’m an old church musician, I have what the jurists call “standing” to tell that joke. I gotta million of ‘em.)
My initial reaction to the quote is the same as yours: pardon me? Which document is “the document” to which the reference is being made: Sacrosanctum Conciliam from Vatican II? Something else? Which “time” do they mean by “at that time”? I’d be interested in knowing who the author and publisher of “The Liturgy Documents” are, just for the record.
Surely there are multiple ways of looking at the Eucharist: as Paschal fulfillment, as covenant meal, as Unbloody Sacrifice, as Sacrament that “confects what it re-presents, and represents what it confects,” as a means of grace, as spiritual food, as Opus Dei (in the Benedictine usage of the term), as ritual action, as cosmic intervention that transports us into the courts of Heaven itself … to mention a few. Some are more complete than others, obviously. In that sense it’s a bit like looking into a diamond: every facet through which one gazes reveals the fire at the heart of the jewel, each from perhaps a different perspective or vantage point.
Ultimately, as faithful Catholics used to say during the Elizabethan persecutions (oh, how it pains me to write that as a still-Anglican!), “It is the Mass that matters.” Sensitivity in ecumenical matters is important, of course (the greatest of these is caritas), as long as it’s accompanied by honesty and clarity.
More later. Hope this helps a bit.
One more very unofficial thought, and then I need to get to work doing a new edition of the Ave Maria by the early Renaissance master Josquin des Prez (1450-1521) for that publisher in Chicago, Helen:
I’m somewhat chary about “ecumenical consensuum,” generally. They sometimes remind me of doing fractions, searching for the lowest common denominator. The Presbyterians who presently employ me celebrate Communion once a month, at the “communion table.” The Southern Baptists with whom I began my career do much the same, except that they only do it four times a year, and minus the table. In both cases, it’s strictly a memorial meal (“do this in memory of Me”) in which the presence of Christ is found in the gathered assembly (“where two or three…”).
The Missouri Synod Lutherans for whom I used to work celebrate Eucharist every week, with a communion rail and kneeling recipients; they are the most conservative of their kind, believing that something changes — how, they’re not entirely sure — and that Jesus is present in the elements. Some of them even believe He remains there after the service is done, and actually have tabernacles in their buildings. Interestingly, they will not communicate anyone not in formal fellowship with the LCMS.
My Anglicans are, as on just about everything else, hopelessly divided. The so-called “High Church” wing where I am still hanging my hat (until I can get the courage to go be reconciled) believe in the Real Presence, celebrate Mass (yes, that’s what at least some call it) each Sunday with reverence, receive Communion with devotion, and reserve the Sacrament. Some Anglican churches even have Benediction; virtually all have an Altar of Repose with continuous adoration on Holy Thursday evening after the altar (NOT a “communion table”) is stripped. But there are plenty others (most, I fear) of another persuasion — that it’s a symbolic meal and nothing more. My Methodist friends are somewhere between the Anglicans and the Presbyterians in both praxis and theology, I think.
So if there IS an ecumenical consensus out there regarding the Eucharist, about all I could venture to say with any degree of confidence is that most Christian denominations (although not the Assemblies of God, nor the Society of Friends) believe that giving thanks with bread and some purple liquid is a good thing to do, periodically, because Jesus did it and told us to do it. The End. Sorta reminds me of the early days of the anti-war movement, when a three-day conference of activists would issue a stirring proclamation that read, “War is bad.”
And that, of course, is why I tried to nuance my listing of the various perspectives on the Eucharist in the earlier post. Most, if not all of them, contain at least a grain of truth (“good dreams,” as C.S. Lewis described the teaching of the Greek philosophers as preparation for the Gospel). But many of them don’t go far enough, and if only one or a few perspectives are selected and emphasised, then the picture that gets drawn is seriously distorted and woefully incomplete.
I would welcome smarter and more eloquent minds to make this clearer. I’m just a guy who waves his hands, really.
I was so stunned, I neglected to name the document! My apologies. It is “The Instruction on Eucharistic Worship (1967). The book, does not have a usbn number, but has the Library of Congress Catalog Card Number :80-80612 Copyright 1980, Liturgy Training Program, Archdiocese of Chicago, 155 East Superior Street, Chicago IL 60611; (312) 751-8382
Father Gerard Broccolo wrote the forward, apparently he is named as a “liturgy consultant”.
There is a thank you to the following copyright holders also:
The English translation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Directory for Masses with Children, (I wonder if there is guitar mentioned there…? LOL)and Introduction to the Roman Calendar (excerpts), from the Roman Missal 1973, International Committee on English in the Liturgy, Inc. All rights reserved. Blah blah.
The Constitution of the Sacred Liturgy 1963, the 1967 Instruction on Eucharistic Worship 1963, the 1967 (excerpts), Music in Catholic Worship 1972, and Environment and Art in Catholic worship 1978, ……
blah blah.
I also think appropriate art in the Church does make a huge difference (for me) and am rather distracted by the non traditional stuff that more closely resembles what I have read some describe as what they have seen in a bad acid “trip”. In our parish, the focus is the choir at the front where Mary should be. Even if they were great, I would not/do not like that. But, being less than mediocre, its even more painful to watch it so closely. (They did, put a very small metal wall hanging of Mary on the Joseph side) and no, we dont have a Joseph. Dont ask about the “crucifix” (hard to call it that really).
Okay, this is a winner in the Introduction- “You will notice that the documents frequently overlap, and that there are places where they contradict one another, and that the language of the official translations is often sexist.”
???????!!!!!!!?????
My poor mother read through this first. I sure wish she had not. How outrageous! My blood pressure is shooting up. What were they thinking?
Jerry, my comment is awaiting moderation, likely because of an S word, I will try to repost with it deleted out, and ask Father to remove the original.
I was so stunned, I neglected to name the document! My apologies. It is “The Instruction on Eucharistic Worship (1967). The book, does not have a usbn number, but has the Library of Congress Catalog Card Number :80-80612 Copyright 1980, Liturgy Training Program, Archdiocese of Chicago, 155 East Superior Street, Chicago IL 60611; (312) 751-8382
Father Gerard Broccolo wrote the forward, apparently he is named as a “liturgy consultant”.
There is a thank you to the following copyright holders also:
The English translation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Directory for Masses with Children, (I wonder if there is guitar mentioned there…? LOL)and Introduction to the Roman Calendar (excerpts), from the Roman Missal 1973, International Committee on English in the Liturgy, Inc. All rights reserved. Blah blah.
The Constitution of the Sacred Liturgy 1963, the 1967 Instruction on Eucharistic Worship 1963, the 1967 (excerpts), Music in Catholic Worship 1972, and Environment and Art in Catholic worship 1978, ……
blah blah.
I also think appropriate art in the Church does make a huge difference (for me) and am rather distracted by the non traditional stuff that more closely resembles what I have read some describe as what they have seen in a bad acid “trip”. In our parish, the focus is the choir at the front where Mary should be. Even if they were great, I would not/do not like that. But, being less than mediocre, its even more painful to watch it so closely. (They did, put a very small metal wall hanging of Mary on the Joseph side) and no, we dont have a Joseph. Dont ask about the “crucifix” (hard to call it that really).
Okay, this is a winner in the Introduction- “You will notice that the documents frequently overlap, and that there are places where they contradict one another, and that the language of the official translations is often s**ist.”
???????!!!!!!!?????
My poor mother read through this first. I sure wish she had not. How outrageous! My blood pressure is shooting up. What were they thinking?
Jerry, do your important stuff, I surely can wait! Thanks for explaining that- I have to say, everything you said made quite a bit of sense to me.
Oh, dear: the Chicago LTP guys? They weren’t thinking (in my personal opinion), much of the time, and therein lies the problem.
But first: please see my earlier joke about liturgists, take a few deep breaths, put on a CD of some gregorian chant, and lower your blood pressure.
I was still director of music at St. Swithins-in-the-Swamp Catholic Church when all of those American Bishops’ Conference documents were issued, and remember them well. Lots more I can say about those days (see also Tony’s trenchant comment about recent good old days not always being all that good), but for now I have to focus on Josquin. Not trying to run away, Helen … you just caught me before I logged off. More to come, I promise.
Most of all, “cheerfully smile,” as the Saint says, and remember that the One Who Loves us is bigger than all the foolishness His children sometimes get caught up in.
P.S. My other stuff isn’t more important, Helen: just working on deadline. The sooner it’s done, the sooner I get to come to Chicago, hmm?
Yes! The sooner the better Jerry. Maybe you can pop in for Mass at my parish and show them what music really is.
I wanted to go back to the music discussion for a sec–
I was a teenage folk choir member.
We didn’t sing any of what we would have called “hippie music” ( this was the early 80s– we wouldn’t even have played it outside of Mass), we stuck mostly to St Louis Jesuit stuff, etc– a lot of it was scripturally based. We did our best to be reverent and unobtrusive– we sang down in the pews, off to the side, and when the whole choir was standing to sing, you couldn’t even see our guitars. Was it inferior music? Yeah, in most cases. Was it irreverent or worse? I don’t think so.
Yep, I tend to find folk music at Mass a little cringe inducing nowadays. But I won’t disown that whole period– my parents weren’t regular Mass goers, and that choir is part of what got me going on my own in the first place, when I was around 12 years old. And a lot of the young people there were the same group of young people who used to meet in the church to pray the Rosary, or say the Stations of the Cross during lent. So while I sometimes see these liturgical music debates and I can see what people are saying and even agree with a lot of it, I just can’t look back on my own parish in the late 70s and early 80s and say “Oh wasn’t it all so awful…”
Anyway– that’s my two cents, fwiw.
But I’ll leave you with some lines from my favourite modern hymn, Gift of Finest Wheat:
“the mystery of Your presence Lord, no mortal tongue can tell;
whom all the world cannot contain comes in our hearts to dwell.”
I had no idea Michelle. The Church in all its wisdom, has decided here anyway- in the Latin Rite, to bar the children from the eucharist until they are 12. Was it the eucharist that made you interested in going to Mass on your own, maybe? Just a thought.
For those who have not read about my rant regarding the rules the Church has set here for that issue, and my personal experience with that matter, let me apologize for the last comment.
To be clear, and on record- I am disinchanted with the formula to say the least. Keep in mind, I am a convert, and consider the eastern perspective on that issue to be more in keeping with these words
“…let the little children come to me”…….
I pray, that with Benedict kissing babies now, he may also see the theological import of keeping that idea in mind, now more than ever. I have much faith, and trust in him, and continue to hope this too one day will pass. I am heartily sorry I missed the chance to see him, but was with him in another way. One that I think, will suffice.
“Was it the eucharist that made you interested in going to Mass on your own, maybe? Just a thought.”
Well, I’d love to be able to say that I was that holy at the age of 12– but no, straight off I went because I wanted to sing in the choir, and the other stuff followed. But the grace of God was there for me in his Eucharist– Holy Communion was still Holy Communion and Mass was still Mass, even if the hymns were folk songs– pretty much what I tell my own kids if after Mass they complain about an ill-chosen hymn, etc. You can imagine in our van on the way home from Mass, with the number of kids we’ve got (all very opinionated and chatty) how quickly the conversation could deteriorate if we didn’t re-focus them.
I’m not clear about the rest of your comment– are you saying that in your diocese, first Holy Communion isn’t going to be allowed until age 12? Or are you referring to “children’s liturgies”– I don’t send my kids off for those during Mass. No one has ever bothered me about it. I suppose if it became an issue we’d just attend a Mass where they don’t have one. But to be clear, in our diocese, the children only leave for the liturgy of the word and are to return before the offertory, and the instruction from the bishop is that they are to assist at the entire Mass once they are in Grade 2– the age for Confession and First Holy Communion. I suppose for little ones from some families, it’s the only age-appropriate catechesis they ever get– but I just tell my guys they don’t need to go, and that’s a good enough explanation for them, they’d rather stay with me anyway.
????Dumbfounded by Michelle’s comment.
“are you saying tghat in your dioccese, first Holy Communion isn’t allowed until age 12?’
Well., as YOU already know dear Michelle, and Tony, who made it very clear to me how it can be possible (I will refrain from my personal commentary on the loophole aspect for now)
I am really unsure what your question really is Michelle.
Why not just spit it out clearly?
Not that I can, spelling Tghat!
I have no excuse, even though I am not on Mozzila, and am trying out today, my new computer. A sony vista, and not very impressed, but it works!
Pretty soon, my husband will take roosters in lieu of money for his fees., for now, its a vista.
He cant say no to anyone it seems. No matter the payment. Or lack thereof.
Well, I‚Äôd love to be able to say that I was that holy at the age of 12—
This is the typical Catholic mindset, taught to our children.
How disgusting, and sad.
are you saying that in your diocese, first Holy Communion isn’t going to be allowed until age 12?
Minus exceptions, prey tell us all what age it is for Canada?
“blame Canada” (backround lyrics)
Sorry, Helen– I must have missed something somewhere along the way– as I’ve said before, i peek in lots, but don’t always have time to follow all the details– so, on that note, I’m off.
Good bye, Michelle. Sorry to see you leave when you where trying to tell me about how supernatural grace doesnt work. And, how our eastern rites are off the mark. Maybe one day, you will help me figure that one out.
Oh- I do know how Canda operates in this case. No differently.
The telling thing, is how you equate “holiness” …….
C’mon, Helen! Take a breather. That’s really unnecessary. Isn’t it possible that she actually has someplace to go? Give someone the benefit of the doubt. She admitted that she didn’t get what you were talking about (“I must have missed something…”) and that she was kind of enough to tell you she was leaving. Would you prefer she just signed off and not said anything? The snarky response is going to have the effect of people just not responding—it’s really not worth it to be hit over the head like this.
But I’m here and I can tell you that I don’t know what you’re referring to either. Please don’t blow up!!! I’m not doubting that something occurred. But it’s a good example of why you need to just cool it and give people the benefit of the doubt. You remember something that Michelle or I (or both) said (or you understood us as having said). Michelle asked a simple question that, in your mind, related to that prior incident. But neither of us got the reference.
If you won’t directly answer her question, at a bare minimum can you give a calm DIRECT reference to what it was that we “said”? The sarcasm only works if the other person gets the reference and I don’t get it.
For the record, I very very highly doubt I ever said that supernatural grace doesn’t work or that the eastern rites are off the mark. I’ll give you all my Timbits (and then some) if you can find me having said either of those things.
Jerry will attest to this, Helen, and I’m not joking. I wouldn’t offer my Timbits to anyone I didn’t consider a friend. Even via a sure bet like this.
Hmmm. I guess you are claiming Tony, that you do not recall my rant.
Fine.
It is merely a coincidence, I am sure- that Michelle found the guitar mass, to be what made her go on her own, ruling out Holy Communion.
Am I missing something here?
I think not.
As far as “giving benefit of the doubt” Tony, she seems to have much more of that virtue than I do, with those who openly deny the Trinity.
*shrug*
I guess, I am up for much more scrutinuy…?
Dear Tony-
You can not get around the FACT that she equates holiness, to only come to those of a “certian age”
Gotcha
Josip,
If you are still out there, know that I am very happy to have known you here, and pray I will see you on that day.
If I am the reason (by defending ARN) you are not here anymore,
You have cut me in the heart, like a knife slicing through the heart.
You know I love her, and I am very dissapointed you would leave us high and dry.
Its a rough crowd here (Tony)
and, you seem to keep him in line,
or used to….?
What happened to you Josip?
I miss you.
Tony,
If I said or did anything contrary to orthodox thinking, let me know.
But, you can not. Can you?
OK– back now. In fact, I was “somewhere else”, ironing shirts and checking homework, and chasing kids who were a little too pokey about their dishwashing duties. On top of that, this is the only computer in the house (in my kitchen) that has internet access, and I have older kids who need it for different reasons, so I can’t always run back to respond as quickly as I might like to. I did check back b/c I thought I’d signed off too abruptly, and I was completely flabbergasted. But I’ve thought about it while ironing, and I’m ready to answer Helen’s charges.
“Well, I‚Äôd love to be able to say that I was that holy at the age of 12‚Äî
This is the typical Catholic mindset, taught to our children.”
Umm– I wasn’t being sarcastic– i wish I was. I didn’t say that 12 year olds aren’t capable of holiness. I said I wished I was that holy at that age.
“that Michelle found the guitar mass, to be what made her go on her own, ruling out Holy Communion”
I did not rule out Holy Communion. I said that when I was 12, I started going to Mass b/c I wanted to join the folk choir, and I said that evrything else came after– by that I meant my prayer life. And I will quote directly from my comment above: “But the grace of God was there for me in his Eucharist‚Äì Holy Communion was still Holy Communion and Mass was still Mass, even if the hymns were folk songs”.
“You can not get around the FACT that she equates holiness, to only come to those of a ‚Äúcertian age‚Äù ”
Again, all I said was I wish *I* was that holy when I was 12. I did not say that anyone under 12 cannot be holy. Please. In fact, I love seeing little souls grow closer to God– I remember when one of mine made her First Holy Communion she told me that she said to Jesus right after receiving him that there was nowhere else she’d rather be at that minute– and at the risk of incurring further wrath, I’ll say I wish I’d said a prayer like that when I was 7 years old!
Now I’m off again– to make sure everyone’s settled and to throw a load of school uniforms in the washing machine.
“Umm‚Äì I wasn‚Äôt being sarcastic‚Äì i wish I was” me above– i meant to say “I wasn’t being sarcastic– I wish i was that holy” sorry for the confusion, I had 3 kids talking to me at once.
What in the world happened, Helen? The entire day is joyfully filled with conversation, mostly between you and Jerry, on the topic of music. Michelle chimes in and WHAM! you get a bee in your bonnet. What gives?
You “asked” Michelle to “spit it out clearly.” I asked you already to just say what the “rant” (your word) was to refresh our memories but instead you give me “Hmmm. I guess you are claiming Tony, that you do not recall my rant.” You don’t have to guess—I just told you that I don’t recall it.
I don’t know where you got the idea of playing “gotcha” with me. I didn’t sign up for that game. All I want to do is chime in with my thoughts, maybe challenge people to look at something a little bit differently—you know, the same stuff I do with my friends in person, that’s all.
I, too, wish Josip (and ARN) was here. I suspect he is reading this, and I hope he jumps on and contributes. As for your comment though, that he kept me “in line,” I think he may have a different analysis of the relationship than that. We’re in this together, Helen. No one’s trying to one-up the other. It’s really not a rough crowd. You think it’s rough here, look outside.
Helen, all that “business” aside, can you just be patient with us and tell us: are you saying that you have to be 12 years old in your diocese to make your First Holy Communion?
That’s not the rule in MN, and I didn’t think it was the rule anywhere in the United States of America. I thought it was plain canon law and it was all pretty straightforward—the age of reason/discretion is presumed to be around 7; Confession first, then Communion—not the other way around.
I have 4 consecutive years of this starting next year, so somebody let me know if I have it wrong (except for the part about Confession before Communion. I already told them they’ll want to wash up inside and out before receiving Communion. I can’t go back on my word to them.)
(Side note to Father and Jerry: you two now have me self-conscious. I was going to write US but thought that was presumptuous since there are other “United States,” but USA sounds like a chant right out of Lake Placid against the Soviets. So now I’m at United States of America, which makes me feel like I’m going to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Thanks a lot, you two!)
Dear Helen,
Only one thing that you can cause to me (your quote) to be “knife slicing through the heart” is that you abandon the Catholic Church, nothing else.
Tony and I have different approach to things, different spirituality and mentality (differences between “Dalmatians” and people of Lika are big).
Btw., ARN and me are not “bad girl and boy”. Intention is important. (Not related to anyone, just thinking loudly!)
Helen, don`t ever worry about me. I am perfectly fine.
You are a precious soul.
Your brother in Christ,
Josip
Wow. This is what comes from being a newbie: I’ve missed all the backstory, which leaves me in the delightful spot of simply being grateful to one and all for the goodness and kindness you’ve extended to me.
Tony’s right about Timbits: he’s as passionate about them as I am about good music. I completely back him on that.
).
(Tony, think Springsteen, like the good Father: “B…in the USA” and all manner of thing will be well.
Michelle, loved your post. “I was a teenage folk choir member.” Sounds like a memoir title to me!
I do have some thoughts I’m putting together about music choices (the three judgments: theological, artistic, and pastoral) that I’ll try to post — or post a link to, so as not to waste valuable space here — sometime soon.
Love to all,
Jerry
“Michelle, loved your post. ‚ÄúI was a teenage folk choir member.‚Äù Sounds like a memoir title to me!”
– actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a B-movie poster….. those late 70s, early 80s fashions were pretty frightening.
“post a link to, so as not to waste valuable space here”
Jerry, you idealist, you!
Michelle, I remember them all too well! Gracie Slick (lead singer of the Jefferson Airplane/Starship) trenchantly observed that “anyone who remembers the 60s wasn’t alive then.” The 70s and 80s, too…
Tony: ME? An idealist? Say it ain’t so, brother! (But yes: spot on you are, as usual). I’m diligently working with my voice-activated computer guru, otherwise known as my oldest son, to help get something workable up in cyberspace in the not too distant future. That way those who want to skip my peculiar perspective on things musical will be easily able so to do.
Just in case anyone hasn’t seen the Holy Father’s Prayer Intentions for May, here they are. The General Intention hits home, doesn’t it.
Human Dignity. That Christians may use literature, art, and mass media to create a culture which defends and promotes the values of the human person. (General)
Mary’s guidance. That the Virgin Mary, Star of evangelization and Queen of the Apostles, may still guide missionaries with maternal affection, just as she accompanied the Apostles in the early stages of the Church. (Mission)
While I’m at it, here are the Intentions for June. Dianne and Michelle, are either of you going to the Eucharistic Congress?
JUNE
Friendship with Christ. That all Christians may cultivate a deep and personal friendship with Christ so to communicate the strength of his love to every person they meet. (General)
International Eucharist Congress. That the International Eucharistic Congress in Quebec may lead to greater understanding that the Eucharist is the heart of the Church and the source of evangelization. (Mission)
Tony, thank you for posting the intentions. I vaguely remember something called the Apostleship of Prayer that (it seems to me) used to help promote these each month.
Certainly the General Prayer intention hits *this* musician squarely between the eyes. That’s what I want my life to be about, professionally: helping to create that kind of culture. Music, in that sense, isn’t entertainment (just another nice distraction from “real life”), but a vehicle for revelation, a way that brings us into relationship with Christ.
Which is the realest life, the only life, of all, I think.
You got it, Jerry‚Äî http://www.apostleshipofprayer.org. They have much more than ‚Äúsimply‚Äù listing the Monthly Intentions. I find the reflections helpful in fleshing out the intention behind the intentions, if you know what I mean. For example: ‚ÄúWhen the novelist Dostoevsky said “Beauty will save the world,” he meant that true beauty in nature or in art is a revelation of God that evokes the response of faith.‚Äù It also has a nicely-worded challenge from Barbara Nicolosi: “Our efforts to make film and television in a ‘safe’ Christian envelope will not be blessed‚ĶWe need to be in the middle of the industry, on the lots, on the sets, and in the network and studio offices, working side by side with those who do not share our worldview, so as to bring God where he is not.”
When I mentioned earlier that the Intention hits home, I was also thinking of “mass media” as including this here blog. Another way of creating the right kind of culture.
About using literature, art and, in general, beauty to create a better culture…
We are busy doing our part here in Rome, where we’ve already begun organizing an international conference for 2009 called “Reason, Fiction and Faith: An International Flannery O’Connor Conference.” It’s going to take place at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in April of 2009 (20th-22nd), and it’s going to be great. Among the people already lined up to speak are Ralph Wood (professor at Baylor and Notre Dame, author of Flannery O’Connor and the Christ-Haunted South) and William Sessions, who is, as we speak, writing the first authorized bio of Flannery (those who’ve read her letters will recognize his name; they were good friends). People will be coming from all over: one of the main speakers is Guadalupe Arbona (O’Connor’s translator in Spain).
The mention of Barbara Nicolosi above reminds me that I have to let her know about this conference, since she is a great fan and follower of Flannery.
Also, here is the link to coverage of the congress on Salt and Light television:
http://www.saltandlighttv.org/prog_special_eic49.html
Studies out of England show that Gregorian chanting can reduce blood pressure and stress.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=563533&in_page_id=1965
How’s this for a quote you’d only see in the 21st Century:
“Record company Universal recently chose the monks of Stift Heiligenkreuz, Vienna to make an album after responding to a public interest in the genre.
The company also believes the Halo computer game series, available on PCs and Xbox consoles, sparked a resurgence in the music traditionally sung in male church choirs, as Gregorian chant-like melodies form the main soundtrack of the games.”
Absolutely right, Tony: I started playing LPs of plainsong to help me go to sleep back in high school. It wasn’t until I matriculated for my undergrad degree that I learned that physicians had been playing chant for decades to quiet down patients in mental institutions; violent schizophrenics were especially affected by hearing chant, in positive ways.
For those of you who don’t recognize the term, “LP” refers to an archaic audio reproduction technology that involved a large platter of plastic into which grooves were pressed. When these platters were rotated at 33 1/3 revolutions per minute, the music could be extracted through means of an electromagnetic transducer, amplified, and broadcast. An “LP” record had music on both front (“front”) and back (“flip”) sides. Altogether you could cram about 60 minutes of music onto one; hence the “Long” in “LP.”
If it helps, think of a prehistoric CD, and you’ll get the idea somewhat. These old records were heavy, giving rise to the popular observation:
“Friends help you move.”
“Real friends help you move bodies.”
“True friends help you move books and records.”
Fr. John, the Flannery conference sounds terrific!
When are you doing one on sacred choral music in the 20th century, covering folks like Stravinsky (Symphony of Psalms, Requiem Canticles, Mass), Britten (War Requiem), Faure, Durufle, Messiaen, Laruidsen (Lux Aeterna), and for that matter Vaughan Williams (Mass in G minor) and good ol’ Edward Elgar (the Dream of Gerontius, with lyrics by Cardinal Newman, was premiered in 1900)?
Speaking of such: did my Mp3 make it across via email?
Jerry
Jerry, you’re a real renaissance man! Musician AND science fiction writer, too?! Your “LP” story is just too wild to be believed. How can you make grooves into this Large Platter (LP) ON BOTH SIDES and not have them cut right through to the other side? Nice try, my friend. I’m guessing I won’t be the only who’s not fooled.
Very good effort, though. I especially like the thought that went behind the 33 1/3 rpm. How in the world did you come up with that one? As if there would be other platters that worked if they were turned at a different speed. Classic!
Father I realize I posted above using my full name– could I trouble you to remove the post? I’d rather not have my full name up… thanks so much, sorry for the bother.
I’ll repost the link I put up there, to the webpage for the Eucharistic Congress in Quebec:
http://www.cei2008.ca/en/messageducardinal
Ah, Tony: my dirty little secret is out at last! Or, to quote another passage I never wrote:
Jerry:
Swear by my sword
Never to speak of this that you have heard.
Fr. W:
[Beneath] Swear by his sword.
Tony:
O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!
Jerry:
And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Antonio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Done, Michelle M.!
Thanks for clarifying, Jerry.
Father, thanks so much!
Now one more favour to ask of everyone here– please say a prayer for my daughter confirmed on Pentecost Sunday, and my younger daughter making her first Holy Communion in two weeks. God bless everyone, have a wonderful day!
Michelle……..
I will certainly pray for both… such a lovely day for a confirmation… mein was on 29th June (St.Perter & Paul feast day) xxty. years ago. I wore a beautiful dress sent from America by my 2 aunts who lived in Conneticut at that time.. they are now living in Florida (Daytona Beach) and are both end 80ties..
PS. looking forwad to pics….
Prayers from Rome for Michelle’s daughters.
While everyone’s at it, perhaps they could also pray for my niece who was married on the day before Pentecost Sunday. This year, for scheduling reasons too complicated for my brain to handle, we actually had the procession for Corpus Christi on Pentecost Sunday. Surely, a once in a blue moon – mosca bianca for the Italian – phenomenon. of course, the feast itself it still next week! This year – with its very early Easter – has been full of liturgical anomalies.
Jerry’s Shakespearean verse reminds me that, the last time I acted on stage, it was in Hamlet. I got to be Fortinbras, who has the very amusing role of arriving on stage at the end of the play to say, in effect, OK, let’s get all these dead bodies out of here!
The part of Hamlet, by the way, was played by Andrew Sullivan, who’s gone on to other things… and a darn fine Hamlet he was. Best I’ve every seen.
While I’m remembering things, Sandra, the feast of Peter and Paul was the day I arrived in Rome 13 years ago. Hard to pick a more Roman feast day.
Jerry, speaking of classical and sacred music, you wouldn’t happen to know a composer named Webster Young, would you?
Father, you are serious about the date of the Flannery conference?
That conincindes with my bithday and with Holy Father’s big date.. as I recall.
No Josip, I will never leave the faith, but I will consider strongly going EO. I am praying about it.
And yes, I will still keep my vow to teach her the Catholic faith, in the Latin Rite, and all the hogwash they want to feed her.
But, one day- when I am dead- she can see my other scrapbook.
I am currently in the process of converting to the EO.
Another Father John, is helping me out with this process.
Rest assured, my daughter will grow up a Latin Rite Cathlolic, that will rock the socks off them!
I wish I could shake it off, Michelle- but I can not. Do you not see how it was Holy, that you decided (who cares if it was guitar or eucharist now….)
In spite of your parents not guiding you either way?
It smacks of holiness to me as an outsider, not knowing how evil you may have been as a child.
Surely, its possible you could have been a really bad kid. Anything is possibile after the age of reason. correct?
…
Hmmm
Dont get me wrong, and please dont fight me on this, but I feel it is criminal to deprive the children of the Eucharist, and is contrary to Our Lord’s wishes for them.
All, my oldest sister is having surgery on Monday. Please remember her in your prayers if you would. Thanks and God Bless.
Dear Tony,I certainly will keep her in my prayers and thoughts..
I hope all goes well,and she recovers swiftly…
Tony– prayers at Mass this morning for your sis.
Helen,
you are the only one person on the blog who can cut me in the heart and you did it, but it will not change anything in my relation to you. I will always love you in Christ, but I cannot support you in your decision, and will never, because I always wanted only your temporal and eternal happiness, even that would mean not to see you again on the blog.
I understand your anger, but going in schism will not solve anything, and there you will not find internal peace. Christ established One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which glorify Him in different Rites, including Eastern, not shismatic, national churches.
If you like Eastern spirituality, in Mystical Body you can find it, and there, surely, is a great treasure. I said before that I am proud that (although very small) part of Croatians is Byzantine Rite Catholics, and I would never be, absolutely never, a member of a national church, even that mean death, although Croatia/Croatian is a sacred word for me.
I made my spiritual decision (inside the Catholic Church) and am extremely happy.
I also have my “scrapbook” (on the blog).
Long ago I have written: “Na blogu sam ostao iskljuƒçivo zbog Helen…” (I have stayed on the blog exclusively because of Helen…)
I will keep my promise.
Helen– of course the Holy Spirit was active at that time, I just take it as understood that the Holy Spirit is always active. To say that I was not actively seeking to do God’s will when I was 12 or listening to the promptings of the Spirit is not the same as denying the existence or activity of Holy Spirit. In fact, part of what I guess I was trying to say is that Divine Providence can work through a purely human, legitimate choice or action (me wanting to sing in the folk choir) even if I wasn’t thinking about listening to the voice of God at the time, even if the music was often inferior– Omnia in bonum! And of course I was always a child of God and heir of heaven by virtue of my Baptism, and so open to the Grace of God available to me in the sacraments, once I got going to church. Since all of us here are Catholics or hopefully returning Catholics I was assuming these things were understood when I was commenting on liturgical music above.
Was re-reading Brideshead and the final quote there made me think of our above discussion of music– though Waugh was referring to inferior interior design, here and not to inferior music:
“Something quite remote from anything the builders intended has come out of their work, and out of the fierce human tragedy in which I played; something none of us thought about at the time: a small red flame– a beaten copper lamp of deplorable design, re-lit before the beaten copper doors of a tabernacle; the flame which the old knights saw from their tombs, which they saw put out; that flame burns again for other soldiers, far from home, farther, in heart, than Acre or Jerusalem. It could not have been lit but for the builders and the tragedians, and there I found it lit this morning, burning anew among the old stones.
btw– anyone see the new Brideshead trailer (movie due out in July)? It doesn’t look too promising…
Revisiting Brideshead, were you?
Michelle….. check your e-mails…. I hope it worked..
Something for (almost) everyone today!
Tony: Most welcome you are. And–far more important–your sister got my Rosary this morning, in hopes that the docs are wise as well as skillful, and that she recovers fully.
Father John: I’m not sure if to go from Fortinbras to Hamlet’s papa is a promotion or not. But since you’re the only acknowledged Father in here, I thought somehow that half-line belonged most properly to you. I know of Webster Young, but am not greatly familiar with his music. Certainly well-educated and clearly prolific, from all accounts. A friend of yours, or the Work’s?
Michelle: Loved the quote. I think it was Mies van de Rohe who said that architecture is frozen music. Certainly one thing I try to get my choirs and conducting students to hear, see, and understand is that the reverse is equally true, that music is architecture that dances.
Helen, my dear: You are in my prayers. I’m still outside, so I have no standing to do anything but love you and pray for you. And I will do both.
P.S. to Tony: I sent in ten puns to a contest once, hoping I’d win. But no pun in ten did.
Prayers for Tony’s sister… and for Helen. Josip is, of course, correct in his observations and in his love.
I’m not sure, Jerry, if I could call Webster Young a friend, since I’ve only met him once, for coffee here in Rome. He’s a very good friend, though, of a friend of mine in NY. That’s how I know of him. It just occurred to me that you may have crossed paths, especially since I believe he’s spent time in Michigan. And you seem to have similar interests.
Hard to see why anyone felt the need to do another version of Brideshead, after the version with Jeremy Irons and Laurence Olivier (last summer I saw Lord Marchmain’s house on the grand canal in Venice; it looked as good in real life as it did in the TV series). One of my very favorite books.
Speaking of unpromising flicks… having grown up on the cartoon (I think I still can sing the whole theme song), I am disappointed that the new Speed Racer movie has bombed. Especially as the guys behind it, the “Matrix” brothers Larry and Andy Wachowski – of Chicago no less – are probably relatives of mine (“wauck” is an alteration/abbreviation of “wachowski”).
“He’s coming up behind you
So you better look alive.
He’s coming up behind you
In his powerful MACH V!”
“And when the odds are against him and there’s
… DANGEROUS work to do,
You bet your life Speed Racer
Is gonna see it through.”
Immortal verses.
Yes, Helen, the Flannery O’Connor conference will take place in Rome on April 20-22, 2009. The dates were chosen because they’re the closest feasible dates to the feast of our departmental patron, St. Catherine of Siena, but we’ll be delighted to be celebrating you and the Holy Father as well.
There’s a website on the conference (with a nice photo) here: http://www.poeticsandchristianity.info/
The picture shows Flannery in her garden among the peacocks, looking for a feather to give to a friend (the one who took the photo).
I agree about the severely disappointing SR movie. First they mangle George of the Jungle; next, they completely miss the heroic dimensions of Dudley Do-Right. Underdog is completely wrong… and now this.
(I suspect those on the other side of the Atlantic or not fortuitously exposed to TV cartoon fare will read the previous sentence and conclude that we are wacko, or at least that I am. They may well be completely right.)
As far as Webster Young goes, I’m really very small potatoes by comparison, and virtually invisible on the Michigan composing scene, though I live less than 5 minutes from the University. I’m just some guy who writes tonal music: clearly not serious or important.
P.S. to the good Fr. Dr. W: did the mp3s of O Magnum Mysterium and the Hopkins cantata segment ever make it across the ether to you?
See “Ironman” if you want a great movie. As good as “Spiderman” and starring Robert Downey Jr. Can that guy act or what? A ridiculous plot (as they all are in this genre) but you don’t mind and are more than happy to suspend disbelief. (Bonus-a bald Jeff Bridges). Is anyone looking forward to the new Narnia?
I hope everyone is doing well here. Now that I tripped over the cord to Eldest’s X-Box and destroyed his Grand Theft Auto IV disc he can’t monopolize the internet with the game’s multi-player feature. And so now I can get on sometimes. But not for long…College Boy returns and I’ll have a houseful of big guys keeping me busy. Cheers!
Me, I’m still waiting for a movie version of the Bionic Woman– Jamie Sommers was my hero.
The bigger boys in the house saw Ironman and loved it.
Here’s an article I thought might interest some here– it’s about a rather casual conversion from Catholicism to Anglicanism, by a Canadian:
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=515441
And- yes, everyone here is really looking forward to Prince Caspian– they’ve already started watching the trailer over and over again on the computer.
Sorry, Jerry. I meant to answer you about that and forgot. No, the mp3′s didn’t make it over. But I would like to hear the pieces.
There’s been a lot of discussion of GTA IV in the press. What is the verdict of ARN?
Just saw a negative review of Prince Caspian. Hope it’s a fluke.
Moving away slightly from the realm of sacred music….
Does the movie Iron Man make use of the eponymous Black Sabbath song? Guess I’m showing my age, but this was the first question that crossed my mind when I heard the movie’s name. I must confess that I thought the use of Led Zeppelin’s “Kashmir” in the Godzilla movie was pretty inspired.
Ozzie Osbourne’s “Ironman” is played during the closing credits. “Back in Black” (AC/DC) is played in the opening scene on a soldier’s boombox. The music for the ,ovie was well selected. Has it opened in Italy? Do you get to see movies in theaters or do you wait until you can rent the DVD? Some movies, like Ironman, should be seen on a big screen for maximum effect.
I’m trying to remember how “Kashmir” goes but can’t remember. A pity since the group did its best work when I was still in college, eons ago…
GTA IV-My boys and Soccer Kid were glued to the TV doing multiplayer until yours truly ruined the party (Whoops!!!) and loved it. It has taken some time for them to forgive me. It’s set in NYC (“Liberty City”) with all the expected iconic structures in the background, so that part is fun for a New Yorker. Very violent and totally gratuitous profanity (which I had to talk to them about re marketing and expectations of others) that I’m not too happy about but as these things go the graphics and story are terrific. Funny too at times. Here’s a trailer for it sending up “Koyaanisqatsi” (“Pruit-Igoe by Philip Glass) worth the minute it takes to watch it. Very clever::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8OlUZEnyOA&feature=related
Again I am exposing by ignorance. Is there a solo version of Iron Man by Ozzie, do you mean the original?
Just imagine some great beast from the East slouching its way through Manhattan, stomping on anything in its way, filling the murky air with dread…. and I’m sure “Kashmir” will come back to you.
I stand a pretty good chance of seeing Iron Man on a big screen – though almost certainly not in a theater (that’s a rarity for me). I can wait for the dvd.
My understanding was that, aong with the violence and profanity, GTA IV includes some virtually x-rated scenes, but – to be honest – I don’t really know how those games function, so I’m not sure what “includes” means here.
Anyone who thinks OD is somehow caters only to a style compatible with musty religiosity really needs to read this blog: Ozzie, Philip Glass, Black Sabbath, Kashmir, Zepplin? Talk about passionately loving the world!
My understanding about GTA4 is that there is quite a bit of virtually x-rated material, along with a continued emphasis on killing prostitutes, although reputedly one must amass quite a number of points or levels (I’m not a gamer, either) to be able to access the seamier stuff. I seem to recall a debate on National Public Radio a few weeks back that looked into that whole issue.
I’ll be attending my first Evening of Recollection with a priest from the Notre Dame branch of the Work; pray for me that I find the courage to approach him to hear my confession and be reconciled with the Church, if you would. Many thanks.
edit: **NEXT MONDAY** I’ll be attending my first Evening of Reconciliation, &c.
The request remains the same: ora pro me.
“Is there a solo version of Iron Man by Ozzie, do you mean the original?”
I don’t know. The credits (always a good idea to sit thru the credits) listed “(real first name) Osbourne” for Iron Man, but it sounded just like the version everyone’s familiar with. Who knew he even *had* a first name?
So you have a gigantic flat screen TV where you live I see. That would take me about 5 seconds to get used to, having been treated to the experience in an upscale hotel last month.
Re Kashmir…Yeah that works for a Godzilla movie.
GTA IV–Jerry, you might be right about the prostitute stuff being accessible after a certain level (I hear killing a prostitute after she does errands for you, a particularly depraved scenario that especially disgusts) but I saw none of that. So perhaps my clumsiness saved them from an occasion of sin (-:
Prayers as of the moment I read the post Jerry.
Josip, I know I would be in Schism. I am ashamed of that, and knowing I am doing(trying to) so. But, (The Church) getting everything right, to have such a wrong, I am trying to reconcile.
If it even matters, the other Father John, feels I should not do this now, and should wait until I can get past being upset first. I agree with him. He knows I am wounded, but not out for the count.
Re; computer game content and kids (though I know ARN’s eldest isn’t a kid)– I have a story that I think will give Helen a chuckle, maybe the rest of you, too.
Like her little one, I have a couple of kids here who visit the “Webkinz” site (here, in the kitchen, no comps with internet access anywhere else) sometimes. My 14 year-old son was checking out the Webkinz filters, to see how iron-clad they are. Of course he wasn’t typing in swear words or obscenities, and of course those would be filtered out. He was trying out words like “ugly”– they didn’t get through. He even typed in “hemlock” and it wasn’t allowed! So there ya go.
Iron Man — since he saw the movie, my son (the same one above) has been playing it over and over again (not really the whole song, just that stupid riff from it) on my old electric guitar (don’t worry, that’s not the guitar I played for the folk Mass, just the acoustic one
)
Helen,
Catholic faith is an enormous treasure and we have to do everything possible to save/protect her. Everything what lead us in near occasion of sin to lose our faith (what happen when branches are taken away from true vine?), we have to avoid, including persons. Save your soul first!
I told you before to find an orthodox Catholic priest who will lead your soul. Your (Catholic) priest was absolutely right when he said “No!” to your idea about “door to door evangelization”, but you were upset that he don`t understand you, and you were continuing to pray for that ¬´intention¬ª, but be sure that he understand you more then you can even imagine.
In Catholic Church also exists «another Fr. John», who is Catholic of Eastern Rite(s), and who is in full communion with the Peter, in Church established by Divine Saviour. I am a Latin Rite Catholic and love it. I do not have a possibilities to participate in the Tridentine Latin Mass (what you in US certainly have), but have a possibility to participate in lawful and valid Mass in free country, but in my private spiritual life I can be connected with spirituality and «movements» who think like me.
We must not make decisions when we are upset or angry, especially about our eternal salvation. God gave us a free will. Thinking about the “last four things”, especially about the Judgment, what shall we respond to Him, if we leave His Mystical Body, to Him who died on the cross for us? “Well, God, I was angry…”. God cannot be rediculed.
Helen, If you need time to rethink your current situation and everything what I said you now and before, I can wait.
I`ll be here.
Helen,
My thanks for your prayers. Please know that you continue to have mine. Josip reminds me of some practical advice I was given when I first got sober: never make a decision when hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. It’s proven to be wisdom that’s saved my posterior on more than one occasion. The glory of free will, for me at least, is exactly the possibility it permits: to say no. I have no idea what you’re facing, or whether any of those four conditions (we alcoholics generally abbreviate them to the acronym H.A.L.T.) applies to your present situation. But I would encourage you that if any of them does (and to that list I personally add confused, afraid, and sleep deprived: all these mess with my ability to be rational, too), then stop. Breahe. Go sit before Jesus in the Eucharist. Pour out your heart. Listen. Check out what HE tells you to do with a trustworthy guide, as Fr. John and Josip suggest. And take no action until your heart and soul are at peace. Our loving Father is a God of order, among His many attributes, never one of tumult or confusion. He is not in the whirlwind, earthquake, or tempest … but in the still, small voice.
All here are correct, and I read in Holy Scripture today how we are not given a spirit of fear.
Josip., I do agree it stung that I was told not to spread the Gospel. That, is not as hard a blow as to see my little one deprived of the Eucharist for so long. I was not given the option, but as I stand in for her (at baptism) why can I not now?
She even asked, as the ones led up to the altar who had recieved first holy communion-
when Father announced they were “part of the community” she asked me if she was “part of the community”
I told her that of course, she is.
She is getting to smart for me, and asks very good questions, I have a very hard time dealing with, on my own.
She really does know what it means, and it makes me wonder if I am guilty of holding her back from being with Christ.
Helen,
your daughter, after receiving the Baptism, was not only liberated from stain of original sin, but she entered in a state of sanctifying grace, and that she died to the age of reason, when she cannot make a mortal sin, she will go to heaven. In a state of sanctifying grace she is with Jesus in her heart, and never forget that she also have a heavenly Mother, who is all love and mercy, better than any earthly mother can be, and her Guardian Angel. Love and pray for her that she never loses, or if fall to get up, the sanctifying grace. Be with her, answer her questions what come from her innocent and curious heart as best as you can. And don`t be a greater child than she is. She would understand the explanation given by her mother, and that cannot be a reason to go in schism. Remember that her eyes are watching you (“always look at her eyes”, I have written long ago), and don`t let that she see anger, fear, confusion and mess, where have to be protection and strong and unshakable faith.
You gave your daughter what you never had, grace to be baptized in the Catholic Church, Catholic education and living example. And, *please*, never let yourself that your daughter prays for your conversion. You know the best how it hurts.
Josip
http://www.nennolina.it/bio_index_EN.htm
Venerable Antonietta Meo, pray for Helen`s daughter!
Helen, it might help to consider that, in the case of infants without the use of reason, Baptism, which is based upon the faith of others (usually parents), restores a grace that was lost by original sin, which is based upon the sin of others (our first parents, Adam and Eve). In other words, the sacramental action, in its “vicariousness,” matches the evil that it overcomes: thanks to others, we find ourselves in a fallen state; thanks to others, we escape from that state. There is, I think, a certain fittingness to it.
The Eucharist presents a different situation. Recall the words of St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:28): “But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the cup; for he who eats and drinks unworthily, without distinguishing the body, eats and drinks judgment to himself.” This suggests an approach to the sacrament that is quite different from that of infant baptism.
Naturally, in saying this, I do not mean to judge the practice of the Orthodox in this matter or pretend that the words of St. Paul (especially about “distinguishing the body”) are easy to interpret, but I think that they do suggest that the Catholic Church’s practice – treating the Eucharist differently from Baptism – is quite reasonable and solidly grounded.
Your observation that your daughter “really does know what it means” reflects, in fact, a thoroughly Catholic concern, and it is this prudent concern that has produced the practice of waiting until the age of reason – conventionally construed as being around 6 years of age.
In the end, confession last night and restoration to communion was neither as difficult nor fearsome as I’d anticipated. It was only pride that made it so. Love, it turns out, is always stronger than fear. Always. Thank you,my dear friends, for your prayers over these last days, and your patience with me. I would say more, but my heart right now is too full for words.
Jerry, welcome back. We join in your joy!
Deo gratias.
Thanks, Tony. Thanks for your prayers, and for your practical help in connecting me with the folks in Ann Arbor as well. Now you can pray for two things, if you will: the gift of perseverance, and of a vocation to the Work if God so wills it. And probably most of all for the gift of patience for me (that’s three, I know). Looking at the tabernacle today before Mass began, I found myself overwhelmed by the mercy of God. For me? For me, who loves You so little, You did all this?
What beautiful news, Jerry. As Tony says, thanks be to God.
And just in time for the feast of Corpus Christi.
I’ll be praying for those 2-make-that-3 intentions.
Fr. John,
Hadn’t even thought of that aspect of it! My first Corpus Christi in a long time. Gott sei dank. And now the real fun begins…Mass on Saturday, workin’ for the Presbyterians on Sunday. Maybe somewhere there’s a parish that can afford to hire me: Deo volente, as the saying goes, no?
Fr. Mark from Windmere sends you his regards, BTW, and says you’re waaaaay smarter than he is, fwiw. Thanks for your prayers, then and now. And most of all.
Jerry, so this Sunday will be the first time you will receive Our Lord sacramentally in, what, 16 years?? What a truly awesome grace.
By the way, I know Father and you were referencing the Feast of Corpus Christi. But in actuality, Holy Communion on Sunday (or Saturday vigil, actually) will be the real first Corpus Christi for you in a long time. And receiving Him on the Feastday is extra special.
You can count on my prayers for your intentions.
Tony: that’s right. A long time. Thank you for that, and most of all for your prayers, my friend.
Fr. John:
edit, please: Windmoor. not Windmere. And Fr. Mark Mannion, to be precise.
Good morning to you all,
Tony how did the OP. go.. well I hope? I will keep your sister in my thoughts..
Michelle,how was the “big day” for your daughter?
For Helen (and all who care to read)
Taken from following link———
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/pea/cchristi.htm
“The feast of Corpuss Christi is one time when our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is exposed not just to faithful Catholics but to all the world. This is a time when Catholics can show their love for Christ in the Real Presence by honoring Him in a very public way. It is also a wonderful way in which we can show our love for our neighbors by bringing Our Lord and Savior closer to them. So many conversions are a result of Eucharistic Adoration experienced from inside the Church. **How many more there would be if we could reach those who only drive by the church in worldly pursuits**”.
** are from me.. Is this is what you ment Helen, when thinkig about “evangelization” ?? I am sure that more people given the opertunity,would like to hear more about Christ and His sacrifice for all of God’s children..
It is ofcourse true that a Priest would be the person to contact… but as Helen once wrote “it’s geting them into the Pews in the first place”
You Jerry, will be the first to acknowledge that fact… or am I wrong?..
By canceling the “official Holliday” (this year it is tomorrow, 22nd May) in Italy does,just one example, not help that effort, don’t you think?
Paradoxically in most parts of Germany (actually a Lutherian Reformierte country),it still is recognised.. So, I have “school free”… and with others, have more time to attend Mass.
But now… as it is not yet a holliday today… I am off to work.. such a pity,as it is such a beautifull sunny day ..
PS.ARN great article about the “Narnia” in NYTimes the other day.. have you read it??
I hope you all have a great day..
In honour of the above wonderful news and the feast of Corpus Christi, here’s a very short video of St. Josemaria on the subject of Holy Communion and finding God in everyday life:
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=26692
Along with a quote from Flannery O’Connor:
“Her mother let the conversation drop and the child’s round face was lost in thought. She turned it toward the window and looked out over a stretch of pasture land that rose and fell with a gathering greenness until it touched the dark woods. The sun was a huge red ball like an elevated Host drenched in blood and when it sank out of sight, it left a line in the sky like a red clay road hanging over the trees.”
Sandra, ich stimme gerade zu! And Michelle, thank you for the video: it still astonishes me to be able to view a canonized saint on video. What a grace to live in times like these.
So very happy to hear such good news!
Jerry, It is a blessing for all of us that we can share with you this joy!
Sandra, where is the food for the celebration party?
I vote for a chocolate raspberry torte.
Toasted hazelnuts cruched up on top. I know, passe, but I love it.
Okay, I have a lot to say about this, but I will wait until I can say it without being emotional about it.
I appreciate all the efforts made to help me figure this out by the ones who care about this.
And no, I do not want for her to pray for my conversion…
However, since we consider their sacraments to be valid, I do wonder how strong an urge this would be?
But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such
Helen, the words I quoted from St. Paul clearly refer to the Eucharist. The words of our Lord about “the little children” do not. I don’t want to sound flip, but you can’t help but notice that Jesus did not give those little children Holy Communion. Was He preventing them from coming to Him?
And I know that you are well aware of how important it is to be guided by tradition in our interpretation of scripture.
A baptized child has come to Jesus and has not been held back. God is alive in your daughter’s soul through grace.
I saw something from the council of Trent which says that not only do children need to be able to understand that the Blessed Sacrament is indeed the body of Christ (which I do think is possible for some children younger than 6 or 7 to grasp) but they also need to be able to conduct themselves in Mass so as to attend well enough in order to prepare themselves appropriately to receive Our Lord– think of all the prayers leading up to that moment! They need to be able to recall themselves when they’ve been distracted, for example. In my experience with 7 (soon to be 8) first communicants so far, this really does occur around the so-called age of reason. And this makes sense, there is a some reasoning necessary– not just for a little one to be able to understand when he has committed a sin (what we often think of when we use the term “age of reason”) but also for a little one to follow Mass with real attention and understanding.
Also, it is a real gift that my children will actually be able to remember receiving Our Lord for the first time, because of the age at which they received Him.
SOrry– I don’t know why that smiley face with shades came up– I guess because I typed the number “8″ before a parenthesis. I meant to say “seven soon to be eight” First Communicants so far. Though I guess you could take the shades to mean that I think that statistic is pretty cool.
Real (H) Michelle
See even when I try to do a “cool” smiley it just don’t work..
I am off this evening to the Corpus Christi procession from the Basilica of St. John Lateran (honorary canon, Nicholas Sarkozy) to the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore (Mary Major, as we say). It is drizzling now, so please say a prayer that it stops – it’s been raining for several days now – before 7 PM, which is when the Holy Father celebrates Mass at St. John Lateran. The procession follows directly after the Mass, with the Blessed Sacrament and the Holy Father passing up the broad, tree-lined Via Merulana. It’s a huge procession ofbishops, clergy, religious brothers and sisters, and laity.
At the end, Benedict XVI will give the Benediction with the Blessed Sacrament in the piazza in frnt of St. Mary Major.
All in all, a beautiful evening of Eucharistic adoration in the heart of the city.
My vote for celebratory delicacies is either Sacher-torte or Chocolate Mousse. But TimBits will do nicely, I’m sure.
Father John, we will pray for the weather to lift. Oh, how I wish I could be there, rain or not — and then go drink some cappuccino scuro over at Piazza Navona: fa bene!
(H)?
!
Thanks for asking, Sandra. She’s home recovering now and doing well. The part that we were initially most worried about (I still am, but apparently the doctors aren’t anymore) is that she has a history of developing clots. Just to be on the safe side, I’m keeping up with the prayers, no offense to the doctors’ expertise.
Jerry, let’s not quibble. I’m all about sacrifice. I’m willing to forego the Timbits for a week or two. Let’s have the torte and mousse this time. Next week, the Timbits.
Boy, this is going to be one rough week, but it’s the least I could do for a friend. Give give give.
Jerry good morning,I see you are a “sweet tooth”..
Helen,how about this one?;—–
Well,my choice for “the” celebration.. Ravioli con spinacchi in burro e salvia.. (fatto in cassa) and after, formaggi misto con frutta. Which is…..(home made) Ravioli,with spinach and ricotta-cheese filling.. in sage butter.. lots of parmiggiano, a variety of cheeses.. and fruit.. BUT.. taa-raa… the best for last….. creamy baked custard… with caramelized, hot scotish-heather honey-sauce… ofcourse all made by my own lil’ol hands.. One of my favoutite “friday” meals…..
And, YES folks, I am available next week… + I bring my own “pinie” = pinafore.
And now, “unto the brink dear friends”…. (kitchen).
Father Wauck, I heard the weather did not hold, it was raining yesterday in Rome I believe? hope you did not get too wet…
Will you be posting some pics?
Tony very glad to hear the good news…I will, as you, keep up the prayers…
BTW. keep up the sacrifice, by trading the Timbits for the “baked custard” it’s worth it..
A great day to all…
Okay, brother Tony. Take, take, take, that’s been my motto. And how has it served me? Not so well.
So I’ll join you in the sacrifice. Anything for a friend. And I’m very glad to hear about your sister!
P.S. to Sandra: yes, I’m afraid it’s true. Sweet tooth indeed. When I was (much much much) younger, my parents had the … interesting … idea of permitting the birthday child to set his own dinner menu, which the entire family ate along with him. So when I turned 8 or 9 (I **told** you it was a looooong time ago), I selected waffles with syrup, chocolate milk, and strawberry shortcake for dessert. Somehow we all managed to get it all down, but I must confess it wasn’t easy!
Your menu sounds perfect to me. One of the downsides of being divorced is that I have to do my own cooking–a skill at which I’m frankly lousy. As a matter of fact, I’m blogging right now from my home-away-from-home, the local Denny’s restaurant, which has wireless internet in the non-smoking section. Denny’s isn’t exactly a destination: it’s never where you set out to go, just where you eventually end up: but compared to my efforts, the cooking is pretty good (if you’ve ever been to a Denny’s you realize just how wretched my cooking really must be, eh?), you don’t have to do any dishes, and the refills on coffee (even at 10:20 PM my time) are free. What’s not to like, I ask you?
Father: I second the request on pictures, if you have any!
And all: just discovered St. Josemaria’s little book, Holy Rosary. What a treasure!
Father, that helped. Thank you so much as always.
My prayers to all here for always being very helpful, in so many ways.
I have only one question then, is not God Love?
If God is Love, he would need someone to Love Him also in return?
And, other than the Eucharist, in what way can this Love be returned?
I am sincerely asking for any helpful way to understand this better, as to me I feel that its the ultimate connection, the ultimate union. So, how do the children connect to Him?
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question.
“Man Should Not Scrutinize This Sacrament in Curiosity, But Humbly Imitate Christ and Submit Reason to Holy Faith
The Voice of Christ
BEWARE of curious and vain examination of this most profound Sacrament, if you do not wish to be plunged into the depths of doubt. He who scrutinizes its majesty too closely will be overwhelmed by its glory.
God can do more than man can understand. A pious and humble search for truth He will allow, a search that is ever ready to learn and that seeks to walk in the reasonable doctrine of the fathers.
Blest is the simplicity that leaves the difficult way of dispute and goes forward on the level, firm path of God’s commandments. Many have lost devotion because they wished to search into things beyond them.
Faith is required of you, and a sincere life, not a lofty intellect nor a delving into the mysteries of God. If you neither know nor understand things beneath you, how can you comprehend what is above you? Submit yourself to God and humble reason to faith, and the light of understanding will be given you so far as it is good and necessary for you. Some are gravely tempted concerning faith and the Sacrament but this disturbance is not laid to them but to the enemy.
Be not disturbed, dispute not in your mind, answer not the doubts sent by the devil, but believe the words of God, believe His saints and prophets and the evil enemy will flee from you. It is often very profitable for the servant of God to suffer such things. For Satan does not tempt unbelievers and sinners whom he already holds securely, but in many ways he does tempt and trouble the faithful servant.
Go forward, then, with sincere and unflinching faith, and with humble reverence approach this Sacrament. Whatever you cannot understand commit to the security of the all-powerful God, Who does not deceive you. The man, however, who trusts in himself is deceived. God walks with sincere men, reveals Himself to humble men, enlightens the understanding of pure minds, and hides His grace from the curious and the proud.
Human reason is weak and can be deceived. True faith, however, cannot be deceived. All reason and natural science ought to come after faith, not go before it, nor oppose it. For in this most holy and supremely excellent Sacrament, faith and love take precedence and work in a hidden manner.
God, eternal, incomprehensible, and infinitely powerful, does great and inscrutable things in heaven and on earth, and there is no searching into His marvelous works. If all the works of God were such that human reason could easily grasp them, they would not be called wonderful or beyond the power of words to tell.”
“The Imitation of Christ” by Thomas a Kempis
http://www.mgardens.org/TipToeingForMary.jpg
“… We hope that this picture will inspire your readers to remember the words of Jesus who said that to enter the kingdom of heaven we must be as open as a child.”
Thank you Josip, So it is a mystery as to how Jesus is in union with the children of the Latin Rite.
If we do not say it is invalid for those not in the Latin Rite to have Jesus now, rather than later,
is this somehow a contradiction?
And, I agree with the above. I am not by any means questioning the mystery of the Eucarist.
I am merely questioning the rational of the age restriction in the Latin Rite.
I know it is sinful for me to let my mind wander this way, but I dont think its bad to ask these things either.
Sorry for the many typos!
“The Church of Jesus Christ is neither Latin nor Greek nor Slav, but Catholic; accordingly she makes no difference between her children and Greeks, Latins, Slavs and members of all other nations are equal in the eyes of the Apostolic See.”
Pope Benedict XV
http://www.east2west.org/Liturgy&Sacrament.htm
I am a Latin Rite Catholic! Both Rites are equal in my eyes, too.
We do not have to be worry about little children who are in sanctifying grace (the entire Holy Trinity is introduced into their soul by grace) and cannot lose it to the age of reason. We (adults) must worry about ourselves, because we can lose God for all eternity by committing (dying) in mortal sin.
“And, other than the Eucharist, in what way can this Love be returned?” (Helen, above)
“We do not have to be worry about little children who are in sanctifying grace (the entire Holy Trinity is introduced into their soul by grace)” (Josip, above)
I’m going to re-post the link I put up above of St. Josemaria, b/c it addresses both of these points a little, I think:
http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=26692
Helen, dear: I am a baby, a beginner at being a real Catholic, I think. And so maybe my answers will be childish ones, or won’t address your questions well. But it seems that maybe, just maybe, you are creating a false dichotomy in what you’re saying.
Isn’t it always a mystery — a truth we can experience, and understand partially only on this earth, and enter into for ever in the next without exhausting our full understanding of it — how Jesus can be in union with **any** of us?
The theologians can describe the operations of grace, of course, and they do their very best to do so: Jesus is in union with us through grace given to us out of merciful love in each and every sacrament, right?
We Catholics (oh, it feels good to say that!) and our EO friends agree on that much, I think: none of us deserves what Jesus does, and how he does it is perhaps less important than the shattering, astonishing, amazing reality that He wants to do it, and in fact does it, out of love for us, things He made (creatures).
And we return it according to our kind and our ability. My children loved me back when they couldn’t talk just by smiling at me and trusting me when they were babies; later on, they learned to do so with gestures; still later with their words. Isn’t it the same with us? We love because Love first loved us, and the nature of our response will, of nature, develop and deepen in its expression as we get older.
Eucharist is a gift I can find no words to describe, after having been away from it for so long and returning to it just this weekend. On this much we absolutely agree: that He would become so little, so very little, so vulnerable and so humble, just for us — it is more than my mind can absorb. But it is not the only way He comes to us, hmm?
Just as you have used many ways to love your daughter — touch, song, even just presence — as she’s grown, surely we can be confident that nothing will separate her from the Love of Christ. To make too much of a single modality of the giving of that Love, incredible although it clearly is, seems to me to maybe run the risk of overlooking the other ways right now through which Jesus is pouring Himself into your daughter’s life.
Anyway, those are my “baby thoughts.” I hope you’ll take them in the spirit I offer them, which is one of gratitude for your friendship since I’ve been here, and admiration for your desire for your daughter to know Christ and his Love. Surely those are desires He will honor, now and always, for He loves her even more than you do.
And for now, take her with you to visit Him in the Tabernacle, how about?
Helen, all of us agree that the longing your daughter feels to receive Our Lord is beautiful. You can’t do anything more important for her than to safeguard and nourish that love for Jesus and for His Church.
It may be helpful for you to read the example of another young girl who was told that she was too young to receive Holy Communion. (I don’t plan on sharing this with story with my own kids until after they make their First Holy Communions. I can see them being scared to approach the altar—not exactly the attitude we’re trying to foster in them. Still, it’s good for us to see that others have been told “No” before. Hope this helps.
Blessed Imelda Lambertini, 1322-1331
Designated “Patroness of First Communicants” by St. Pius X
The Lambertinis were a noble Italian family in Bologna of the fourteenth century when Imelda was born in 1322. Her father was a count, and the family included many well-known religious, including a famous Dominican preacher, a Franciscan mother foundress, and an aunt of Imelda’s who founded a convent of strict observance in Bologna.
Imelda was an only child and in somewhat delicate health yet she grew up surrounded by the love of parents and relatives. She was a pious child and when old enough used to attend the Dominican church for Mass and for Compline. Her mother taught her to sew as well as to prepare and bring food to the poor. Because of her natural piety it was no surprise to the family when at the age of nine she asked to be allowed to live with the Dominican nuns at their convent cloister in Val di Pietra, close to Bologna. Since the nuns were willing to accept her—such an arrangement seems not unusual at that time—the parents reluctantly but willingly gave this much-loved daughter to the service of God in the convent.
Little Imelda was welcomed by the sisters and, with some limitations, took part in their community life. She wore the habit but could not take part in the midnight Office (community prayer) nor receive Holy Communion. The age for First Communion at that time was about twelve or fourteen.
She did not have playmates but made up for the lack of company by reading about the saints from the books in the convent library, usually large illustrated manuscripts in those pre-printing days. She was particularly intrigued by the story of St. Agnes the martyr, who was not much older than Imelda when she died for the faith. One day Agnes appeared in a vision, and Imelda was delighted. In fact, Agnes seems to have visited Imelda several times, and they talked of the things of heaven.
Yet there was still a great longing in Imelda’s heart to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion. At Christmas this was a particular cross for her but she had to be content with prayers to the infant in the manager and in the tabernacle. Then came spring and the great feast of Easter. Imelda thought this might be the time she would be allowed to receive our Lord and, as she had done in the past she asked the mother superior, but the answer was still no because she was too young. Yet Imelda still felt that strong urge to receive our Lord in the sacrament of the altar and dared to ask again for permission to receive. The mother superior was inclined to assent to the urgent plea of the little 9 year old girl but when she referred the request to the chaplain his answer was a flat ‘no, she is too young.’
That seemed to end the matter, but little Imelda did not stop with her request to the mother superior and the chaplain. She expressed the longing of her little heart to the Heart of him who knows the secrets of all hearts. She did this not for a few minutes or for an hour or two, but it was a longing expressed with particular desire in the days leading up to the feast of our Lord’s ascension into heaven. The day before this feast of Ascension Thursday, Imelda had received permission to remain in her place in the chapel after Mass to spend a longer time in meditation on the great mystery that would be celebrated the next day.
For some time after Mass was finished the sister sacristan was busy putting out candles and then putting away the things used in the Mass. She hardly had time to notice the small figure kneeling quietly and praying after all the others had left the chapel to go to breakfast.
It was some sound that caused the sister sacristan to take another look at the little girl praying in the chapel, and to her great amazement she saw a light in front of Imelda with a host suspended in the air in front of her. She rushed to get the superior and the chaplain. When they arrived, followed by many in the convent who had heard what was happening, the chaplain slowly approached, reverently took the host and gave Imelda the Communion that she so longed for. How could he refuse to give Communion when our Lord himself had indicated that he wanted Imelda to receive him in Sacrament? With the Communion, the light disappeared and things returned to normal so all departed from the chapel, leaving Imelda to her thanksgiving. After an appropriate interval, the superior went back to the chapel to call Imelda to breakfast. She lightly touched the tiny kneeling figure, then realized that not only had Imelda received the Lord in Communion but that he had taken her soul to himself, leaving her lifeless body for the veneration of the faithful.
Reference: St. Dominic’s Family, by Sister Mary Jean Dorcy, O.P., TAN pub., 1983
I have not yet gone into schism, nor will I at this point, or ever.
I still am doing this, not fully understanding or being able to understand this.
But after incessant prayers to Our Mother, who brought me this blessing,
And Joseph, and Our Lord, most importantly,
I really feel like I must let go of this.
I must admit, It has been rather hard to understand.
The IC is easier for me to understand!
I know I am in safe hands, those that care that have helped me/us through this.
In turn, I need help from OD.
There is one that needs a connection to Opus Dei in Spain.
He is the oldest son of my daughter’s Godfather, and has been active in retreats, ect.
He is a grad of Stubenville, (sp?)
And, he is nervous.
I hope someone here will help him out, as he the oldest son of the Godfather of my child.
Also, prayers for the new couple with child next door.
She is half Croatian and Italian.
Marlie.
New members at our parish. I had a Mass said for her intentions. My little one is so excited to play with her.
Last name Ficco. Did not know that was a Croatian name.
They are wonderful people.
And no one has welcomed them from the parish yet, so I am busy now. I will welcome them, you bet.
Glad you are finally home now Jerry.
You are home.
Helen, is the gentleman in Spain right now? What’s he nervous about, or can you shed a little more light on the situation? No need for private details, just something so we know where he is and what kind of help he needs.
By the way, I made my retreat a couple weeks ago at Murray Hill Place in NYC. Someone mentioned in one of the talks that he had asked a priest from Pamplona, Spain how many centers of Opus Dei there were in that city. I don’t remember the number but it was like in the hundreds. The guy remarked, “So there must be one on every block.” The priest responded, “Oh, no. ..every four or five blocks.” So I think your friend is in the right country.
Thanks for welcoming the Croatian/Italian family. Josip will hopefully correct me if I’m wrong on this, but Ficco sounds Italian, not really Croatian.
Helen, don`t worry, everything will come trough the time, and you will be surprised how it can be clear, although understanding with our human reason. I am very glad to hear that you will find help from OD. I think that is an excellent choice, and hope that Father or Tony, or any member from US will find you a good and trustworthy spiritual director (priest or layman).
Yes, Tony, Ficco sounds Italian, but as I said before Croatian is matter of *heart*, not blood.
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/pasioza.jpg
(by Josip Botteri Dini)
Testing—
Tried to post 3 times now
Tony, Anthony will be in Spain soon again. He has been there before, but was hoping for an OD contact.
I am so blessed, that his father is my child’s Godfather. They both are very good witnesses of the faith, and are interested in OD.
God is so good!
Helen, what city is Anthony going to? I assume this is this for some extended stay like school/work, etc., not vacation?
Father, I’m assuming you’re swamped with school-year finals, etc. I can follow up on this and get it to whichever city Anthony’s headed. If you have contacts there, though, please let me know.
Some of you here may be interested in John Allen’s post today, about the Catholic Media Convention that was held in Toronto this past week, because he was there (don’t you wish we could have gone, Dianne?)– makes one feel quite hopeful!
http://ncrcafe.org/node/1861
And here is Salt and Light Television blog coverage of the Catholic Media Convention:
http://saltandlighttv.org/blog/
It was not an international convention like the one Father told us about at the top of this comment thread, but was a North America- wide conference.
Ok– last link about the media conference, but this one’s great– eminent Canadian ethicist Margaret Somerville’s (McGill university, she has written for Mercatornet) remarks:
http://www.catholicregister.org/content/view/1892/849/
Tony, I will be getting the specifics at his brothers graduation party tomorrow afternoon. Its the parish birthday party first, with pony rides, etc. Then, off to see his youngest sib grad from the same high school my husband did. (good catholic one., breeds attorneys, ect. LOL!) He is looking to work there. Maybe long term. He has been to retreats, but dropped off for a while. I asked him if he while there, would be interested in picking up again. He said he would be.
He knows Scott Hahn’s daughter from (forgive spelling) Stuebenville? and he has a theology emphasis., but I think he ended up with a teaching major. Again, its one of his sisters I am connected to mostly, and his father is my child’s Godfather, (and the best man at our wedding) who will- thanks be to God- be at her “graduation” on Wed. No other family will attend, but he will.
My mother is too scared to be in a Catholic building still, but is considering coming, so I am praying she will also come.
I know it sounds silly to care so much about pre-school, but I really think each day is a party.
We should celebrate these moments. They are gone so fast, and we dont know if we will be here tomorrow.
Our new Croatian parish members offered one of their folding tables for the graduation party tomorrow. Once they heard they were short tables, they instantly offered it, and even offered chairs. Very nice people, to strangers.
They are Croatian on the husband’s mother’s side, therefore the name being Italian (it is!)
She is softspoken, and very nice to me.
Not sure what it means from a mental health standpoint, but I meant to say he was my choice for best man at our wedding. In fact, this is funny now, but at the time was not funny- that one of the priests told my husband’s cousin (who was the best man) that he was number 2 on the list! How embarrasing! I only suggested it, since he was so close in spirit, and everyday life matters- doing things than the cousin. It did not matter to me, but now I wonder, if some “freudian slip”? (would that apply even?) that I wished for him to be the best man. Well, enough of my boring life details. I am busy trying to make some appetizers for the party, and wishing Sandra was here with me, if she was- it would be a really good party!
This is a bit confusing to me now, anyone have a take on this Holy Scripture?
I am looking at all commentaries I have at my hands, yet this one gets me.
2 Ki 2:23-24.?????????
I dont know how to approach this one.
Good evening to you all,I hope you all have had,or are still enjoying a lovely weekend..
Ivano and I have just returned home (we were visiting Gabriele)..
To our dismay,our garden is in chaos… there was a terrible hailstorm on friday evening.. the hailstones punched holes into the window shutters.. so powerfull was the wind.. anyway nothing that can not be replaced..
Well Helen I am so in agreement with you.. every day we can witness our children growing up is a gift to be celebrated… They grow up soo quickly… Each day that we are lucky enough to enjoy with them is a day to remember..
As to your question regarding 2 Ki 2:23-24 I do not see the conection, but it has inspired me to look up Hosea (Osee). His Book describes most touchingly God’s intense love for His people despite their ingratitude and constant infidelity.. Just as we parents will allways love our children..
Finaly I know that you are more than capable of making the “Birtday party” a full success… still I would love to have been there… perhaps you could send a few pics..
I will look up 2.Kings again later and try to work out what (in my opinion) is ment..
bye for now..
Dear Helen:
Hope the birthday went well. I’m no exegete (although I can spell it, laus Deo!). But I’ve generally found that the Jerome Biblical Commentary is a good place to start. Mine’s at home, not here at the office, but when I dig it out I’ll see if there’s something that offers context for what appears at face value a pretty peevish response for being teased about hair loss. Heck, if I had the power to do that, all five of my children would’ve been eaten by now (joking, please) — and I still have most … well, lots … well, some of my hair left.
But the best idea is one I heard a long time ago: “take all of Scripture, not just part of it” (St. Augustine, I think). And so certainly Sandra’s idea to turn to Hosea is an inspired one. The mercy of God truly is amazing; I thank God that for me His mercy trumps His judgment, otherwise I’d be sunk, too! And of course the wisest thing to do, as far as I’m concerned, is always to think with the mind of the Church when it comes to interpreting Scripture. Left to my own devices, I closely resemble Winnie the Pooh: I am a bear of very small brain. But among the reasons Jesus gave us the gift of the Spirit is to lead us into all truth, as He is The Truth. If we think with the Church, we won’t be left, as my friends on the other side of the Reformation are, figuring things out on their own.
Sandra, may your garden quickly heal. Hailstones? Now **that’s** Old Testamental!
Love to all,
Jerry
Sorry, birthday party already happened. Last friday, and it was a hit with the kids!
I was talking about a graduation party, for Anthony’s brother which was today. It was nice. He was in Barcelona, (sp?) a few years back, and wants to go to Madrid, for some reasons. He spoke briefly to me about this again, today asking if I had any info. I told him I needed more information from him.
Sorry also for sounding so troubled about that passage, but it really did throw me for a loop. I am much calmer now, and thanks to both Sandra and Jerry for calming me. By the way, there is no connection with that passage, its just what I happened to read right before posting.
I am very glad you both got to visit with Gabrielle.
My family continues to keep her in our daily prayers.
Mom sent to me a book- “The Raccolta” I found on my steps Sat morning. Prayers and devotions. The very first page inside has Our Risen Lord on the Cross. She said she kept this book, for a year before finally finding another depiction of Our Risen Lord on the Cross that she liked as much. I am very happy. She also sent 3 more I have not even opened up yet. Too excited with this one.
Hail…. very sorry to hear that. I like hail to be in reference to Mary- Hail Mary Full of Grace
Not the hailstones. And not on my perenials/annuals!
Yes, parish birthday party was today also, and it was fun! Pony rides, jumping jack, ect. After 12:00 Mass.
I was worried, they had free unlimited beer, (along with food of course) and I dont mind having it there at all, but I was thinking if its free maybe some will go to far. Hopefully, it was fine.
Ooops!!
he was (as usual), too lazy to drive into the garage. Thank goodness the inurance will foot the bill..
Helen, do you mean the second book of Kings, where the Children call after Eliseus; “go up, thou baldhead…..”?
I was looking in the wrong place… In my Bible the Chapter is 4.Kings 2:23-24.(according to the Greek Septuagint) The Whole chapter has to do with disregard / disobedience to God’s will.. The “chanting of the young boys* is directed at Eliseus’s tonsure,a distinctive mark of the Prophets…. so it seems that the *punishment* in form of the *bears* killing them was sent because the boys mocked a prophet of God, amounting to *blasphemy*, at that time punishable by death.. At least that would be how I understnd it…
I expect Fa.Wauck could shed more light on this though.. PS. I do not think that the *children* were so very young.but then an age is not given… Acording to the Jewish belief / *rules*, parents were responsible for the actions / fate,of their children.. so it would be on their conscience,as they diverted from God’s commandments.
This is also in a way what is ment by the “age of reason”.. untill that age the parent is resposible for teaching their hildren right from wrong.. after the age of reason, the *child*,is expected to realize right from wrong,and acknowledge the consequences.. ergo,the true meaning of Confession,and the commtment involved in taking Holy Communion.. So actually,there is in some way, a connection
Please correct me if I am off track here… Fa Wauck, or anyone else who may be more knowledgeable on this.
Must get off to work.. (another 3 weeks ’till summer holls…. yippee.) Ivano must later take our car to be repaired, hailstones dented the roof..
Yes Jerry,Old Testimental *justice*
bye for now…
Intersesting Sandra. I sometimes randomly try to fit in my bible readings while waiting for her release from school. With gas prices by me being what they are, I take advantage of walking more than I did before.
The best day this year!
(should have more than I did, I am embarrased to admit) But, last night after she said her prayers and her nightly Hail Mary, she told me Mary looked very lonely, and could she plant some flowers to make her less alone? Well, I knew I had a few spares that were full sun freindly, but not much, and went there early and told Our Lady about her interest. A few semi truck drivers showed some interest in my prayers as they passed by. After I left her, I buzzed the buzzer to the office to ask permission to plant. Our former pastor, and current one happened to be there. Long story short, I got the approval. It was not easy, but it happened.
One of her playmates heard we were going to hurry home to plant, and he offered to help her! (Joseph in the making!) He said that the street was very busy, and dangerous, and he needed to be there to help!
His mother came back to meet us to help with treats, and we all went to work. There is no hose hook up close by, so we had to take my watering can in the school to fill (in the Boy’s bathroom!) right then, the maintanance man told me he would get a hose, and hook one up for us, (that meant running it around the whole building to do this!) And he was there right in time when our watering can was empty. All four of us, were muddy and wet, but laughing and having fun. Our Lady was with us every step.
She taught her son, the Hail Mary. He never said it before. He says part of the Our Father, and thats it. They are going to be good friends I think. They want to water tommorrow together. He said it was “better than a playdate” and he wants to join her all summer to water the flowers by her.
Sandra, I still have a hesitancy about that passage, but thank you so much for understanding. I know, it was meant to be for me to read your suggestion, even though I was asking myself- What does this have to do, have to do with it?
He will be teaching English classes in Madrid Tony. For one year. (Not as long as I thought)
In the end, Jerry is right that I must accept the Church’s position. And, that one is that the God of the old testament or better said, the Hebrew Scriptures is the God of the New testament. As hard as it can be to see with the occasional odd passage here and there to digest.
PPS- also not sure where to get reliable info on Jewish law regarding suicide. It hit me after I posting that this could tie into original sin? Judas? His suicide.
Thank you all for helping me, I would be very lost if not for my friends here.
We must all pray much harder for priests. I will not even type his name, but you all, know who I refer to.
In my diocese. A public spectacle. Thank you all for not mentioning the embarrasing dillema going on here (ongoing actually) that the whole world is watching. Its very sad, and pathetic.
Right you are, Tony. End of the semester scramble over here. I am directing 4 masters theses and one doctoral dissertation, and I have a bunch of final papers to read for my own course.
As it happens, I was almost at that Catholic Media meeting in Toronto. I was going to go to publicize that seminar for journalists that we are putting on here at the university in September (“The Church Up Close” it’s called). In the end, though, things were just too busy on this end of the business, so a trip to Toronto will have to wait. Pity… I would have had a chance to meet some of the people on this blog!
Yes, Helen, Chicago is really in the spotlight these days. In reality, both of the candidates are Chicagoans, though for some reason people seem to think of Hillary as being from NY – fairly preposterous, since that’s not much more than a legal fiction (a senator has to be from somewhere). After all, she was actually born and bred in Chicago. Obama was not. Obama is from Chicago the way Hillary is from Little Rock…. ie, not much.
Helen, enormous care needs to be taken when handling the texts of the Old Testament. The God of the OT is the same as the God of NT, but the texts of the OT are quite different – both from each other (their genres, the circumstances of their composition, their purpose, their dating, etc.) and from the texts of the NT.
A week or so ago, I attended a rather unique Mass. The solemn “taking of possession” of a church by a cardinal who was being elevated from the grade of cardinal deacon to that of cardinal priest. The cardinal in question was our own Cardinal Stafford, the apostolic penitentiary and former archbishop of Denver (he was there when Pope John Paul II came for World Youth Day). The church in question was San Pietro in Montorio, one of the most beautiful in the city, up on the Gianiculum Hill, overlooking the whole city of Rome.
Father, I pray for you daily and hope you will never stop giving hope and sheding light, to all of us. As you
have for so long.
If anyone here will pray for my child, I would be so grateful, she will be a graduate of Catholic pre-school tomorrow, and I have 3 burned fingers still trying to make all the “mini” (lol- I made “maxi”) cupcakes for the last day.
She is growing up so fast. I am filled with all sorts of emotions at this moment.
Her father, and Godfather will be there at 8:30 am.
She is a light of Jesus, on all who meet her. Please, pray for her tommorow, anyone with good intent reading this now.
I must finish the decorations of 75 (minimally) but I am kind of “Italian” in a way, and multiply that by 2 when it comes to food.
Good night, God be with all here, so many who I am a much better Catholic for knowing, learning, and listening to (even when ranting!)
Yes, Father- Its amazing how many don’t know Hillary’s backround. Sader yet, as much as she is pro-abortion- she is not anywhere close to B.O. who stinks a mile away. He is a baby killer proponent.
Evil man.
Lets pray for Cardinal George, to finally show who he is, what he stands for.
The man I am not going to type his name (ananthema) is making him look impotent.
This is NOT good for morale here.
Something has to be done with him.
Helen–Hope the graduation goes well. Your daughter must be all happy anticipation.
Helen,ofcourse I will keep your aughter in my thoughts tomorrow (05.June ?)..
it’s called “growing up”…….
Have a great day tomorrw…
Will she be starting “big school” as they say in the UK…after the summer break?
And yes,the years pass by so quickly,before we know it they are *graduating* for real,and then, off to uni…
The worry free years for childern are soooo very short. “Der Ernst des Lebens hat begonnen” = life in ernest starts.. So many things change,not only for them but for us too.It is ever more difficult to “let loose”,as we will always want to protect them from life’s small,and at times not so small, disapointments..
But, “that’s what love’s got to do,got to do with it”
… hapens to the best of us
Look’s like I should go back to school…. (sooooo many typos)
sorry…
Helen, we’ll keep praying for all our friends in Chicago, and for all those who aren’t our friends. It’s one of the mandates of Scripture, I think.
Fr. John, I’ll pray for you and your students if you will intercede for my one remaining dissertation signatory who has yet to put her name on the line. At 54, I’m tired of being the oldest living doctoral student at Michigan State University: I want to take my comps and be done with it … plus there’s a book contract waiting for the dissertation to be approved.
Hey ARN.. I had though of sending out the “search party”…
Father Wauck,nice to see you had a little time off from your very exerting time-table.
Yes,the OT can be very difficult to read and understand.. but without the OT, the rest would, also be so much more baffling.. The whole “Entstehungseschichte” = Origin / Development of makind is documented in the OT. I think (personally) that to understand fully the extent of the “promise of redemption” and the reason why God sent His son to deliver, not only the “promise” but also the means to recive such, (NT) we must know and understand the “Vorgeschichte” (for want of another word) = History / existence / origin,before and after “The Fall”. ….After all where would we be without “Genesis”?? (joke).
Ivano and I want to go to Italy this summer for a few days… We could possibly find time to visit Rome again, it has been ages since we were there last… Who knows this *bloger* may be able to meet you…
Now, before you decide,to go on a “world tour” for the next, few months / years… take heart,it may not happen
I must now get the evening meal on the table,or it will be Ivano taking a long trip…to find *eatables*
Sandra, just don’t come to Rome in the first three weeks of July, during which I will be – believe it or not – further north than you!
Lots of prayers for your daughter, Helen. And for Cardinal George.
And, oldest living doctoral student in Michigan, plenty of prayers – probably should be sung for maximum effect – for that signatory… and the book contract.
Grazie e mille, Fr. Wauck. I’ll send you a copy when it hits print: helpful cure for insomnia, if nothing else.
Prayers for everyone’s intentions, here, from Canada.
Hi! all,
just a few minutes timeas we have a *sponsored race” on tomorrw in aid of our school playground.. lots still to do I must copy about 100 aplication forms and get to bed early (for a change)..
Helen, how was the “big day” for your daughter (and you)??
give her our (ivano and mine) best wishes.. for her next big day … probably after summer break?
Fa.Wauck how far “north” will you be traveling? we will be in Denmark (Fan?? small island) for a few days in during the summer holls.. so you see, you can not escape me
test
On this Day 1929
Rome, June 7.–From 11 o’ clock this morning there was another sovereign independent State in the world.
Pope Becomes Ruler Of A State Again
Bells Peal and Crowds Cheer as Treaty Exchange Restores His Temporal Sovereignty
Papal Secretary of State, representing Pope Pius XI, ratifications of the treaties signed at the Lateran Palace on Feb. 11.
By that simple act the sovereign independent State of Vatican City came into existence.
I tried to send the whole article in a link (worth reading) but it did not go through ???
Perhaps Fa. Wauck is off duty and the “trip-wire” is active….
PS. Not that Fa.Wauck is *in-active*
Thank you all for the prayers! She was very excited and, we have not stopped celebrating, therefore the absence here- to many it may be a delight! LOL
Jerry, I think you can spare a copy when you are here no? In any case, hold one for me, I will save it for the little grad. Yes, I am very excited for you, and I will read about David, before I pray for your intentions, as he loved music also. I say this, with confidence that the book will be in the “works”. Or should I say, In the Work?
Sandra, there really is no escaping you! LOL thank you and Ivano for your wonderful support of her efforts.
Okay, I was thrown a bit when someone I know (protestant) told me Calvin was the first to do what is somewhat simmilar to OD, and to tell people that their ordinary work was Holy. I did not reply, as the first mental image I get of Calvin, is not that nice really. So, like thumper’s mom said, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all. (I am getting better no?) Well, I am still trying to find this information, yet- even if it is true, he was still very wrong about pre destination, and therefore I am very leary about his guidance from the Holy Spirit on all doctrine he taught of course.
I am sure he meant well, and do not mean to disparage him in any way- but he does not pass the sniff test.
Good night to all!
PS can you believe the pre schoolers got yearbooks? Isnt that odd? At least she snagged a few signatures for hers.
Girls, check your snail mail in a week.
Sandra, if you have time, I need to speak to you tommorow email. Thank you.
Helen, I will be sure to reserve a copy of the book for you when it comes out. As I told Fr. John, it’s a snoozer — a guaranteed cure for severe insomnia.
As for whether that work is in The Work is a matter of time, I think. My spiritual director, Fr. Mark, wisely counsels getting the basics of my life strongly re-established first, and I’m doing my best to do that — beginning with the discipline of patience. Well, actually not: the disciplines of prayer and filiation come first, and the virtues will flow from those. When I’m able to apply, I certainly hope to.
I’d be surprised if someone prior to Calvin hadn’t talked about the holiness of the ordinary and work. When I have time on my day off (tomorrow), I’ll see what I can dig up. Maybe, say, St. John Chrysostom…
Yep– I recall from a long ago Religion course on Christian Holiness that the linking of ordinary work and prayer was present in the writings of the Desert Fathers.
“He that hath a talent, let him see that he hide it not; he that hath abundance, let him quicken himself to mercy and generosity; he that hath art and skill, let him do his best to share the use and the utility hereof with his neighbor.” St. Gregory the Great, quoted in Rerum Novarum, Pope Leo XIII.
I have just a very few minutes as I am on my way out… Our little Bible reading groupe will be all together this afternoon.. (tidying up from friday’s sponored race)..
I expect that,the second great commandment Jesus Christ gave,is to love your neighbor as you love yourself, there are few things as loving,as helping ,as an act of love that flows out of a heart of compassion.
I believe that, if in our daily life, we try our best to keep that in mind,and do our best to achive this..
So for myself neither Calvin, nor anyone before, nor after has come up with a better recipe for living a Holy life.. in all that we do. For some this is *easy*, for most, more difficult, but then, we were not promised
“life would be a a piece of cake”.
This would be my answer…. “There is nothing new under the Heavens”
As any acts which we perform are worth nothing without faith,so is faith without works equally so.
The Epistle of St.James 1:22——- and, 2:10- 14——— I find that all of James can be helpfull in this..
Right Helen I’ll be here after 18.00hrs your time kk or pos before kk.
keep well everyone… I must rush,… wheeeeeeeeeee!
I just saw this and am amazed!
Check out this story, about a young family, and Holy Father’s blessing- maybe you have heard it but I did not until now. Gives you the goosebumps.
http://www.insideedition.com/storyprint.aspx?SpecialReportID=1761
Thanks for the early father quote! I should have known to go with my instincts, and know that this was nothing new in the Church. But, its helpful info for the next time I talk to my Calvinist aquaintance.
Pope John Paul II, Laborem Exercens, quoting the Angelic Doctor:
And yet, in spite of all this toil-perhaps, in a sense, because of it-work is a good thing for man. Even though it bears the mark of a bonum arduum, in the terminology of Saint Thomas, this does not take away the fact that, as such, it is a good thing for man. It is not only good in the sense that it is useful or something to enjoy; it is also good as being something worthy, that is to say, something that corresponds to man’s dignity, that expresses this dignity and increases it.
If one wishes to define more clearly the ethical meaning of work, it is this truth that one must particularly keep in mind. Work is a good thing for man-a good thing for his humanity-because through work man not only transforms nature, adapting it to his own needs, but he also achieves fulfillment as a human being and indeed, in a sense, becomes “more a human being”.
Without this consideration it is impossible to understand the meaning of the virtue of industriousness, and more particularly it is impossible to understand why industriousness should be a virtue: for virtue, as a moral habit, is something whereby man becomes good as man.
One of the master teachers on this whole topic, St. Francis de Sales, was consecrated bishop of Calvin’s city, Geneva, in 1602, having served as coadjutor there since 1599 (a mere 35 years after Calvin’s death in 1564), so his perspectives on the question of the universal call to holiness, as set forth in his classic work, Introduction to the Devout Life, are perhaps particularly apropos. Herewith a few excerpts from a good article, which can be found online at http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/MARAPR99/universal.html:
In the history of spirituality, the concept of holiness for all “had been taught previously by such theologians and spiritual writers as St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Erasmus, and Louis of Granada.” From the early part of the fifteenth century Gerson in France had “inclined toward spirituality in the sense of a `universal devotion.‚Äô His celebrated cry, `Monachatus non est pietas‚Äô (`Devotion is not the prerogative of the monk‚Äô) became proverbial.” In early seventeenth century France, however, this concept of the Biblical call to holiness for all “had in practice become considerably narrowed in scope.”
At this time there were at least four currents of thought as to who could attain perfection and how to go about it. First, as in the Middle Ages, there were those who believed that one attained holiness by withdrawing from the world and entering a cloister. Secondly, some maintained that the “easy devotion” of the humanist Pierre Charron was all that was required. A third group, inspired by the Rhenish-Flemish mystics, asserted that the devout life was reserved for a contemplative elite. A fourth school of thought, and the one to which St. Francis de Sales adhered, was influenced by Spanish and Italian thinkers. This group believed in the universal call to holiness, and was inspired to a great degree by Louis of Granada (1504-1588).
Louis of Granada, the “outstanding spiritual writer among the Spanish Dominicans of the sixteenth century,” taught that “all Christians are called to perfection” and that each Christian “should seek the goal of perfection in accordance with his temperament, his state in life, and the gifts he has received from God.”
It is clear that St. Francis de Sales would have been familiar with all these varieties of thought at the end of the sixteenth and the beginning of the seventeenth century for, “he had read widely and deeply the works of all the schools of spirituality. Perhaps no one else of his time was as well informed as he.” Schooled by Jesuits since the age of fifteen, he had also taken part in the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, “during which he had heard `the universal call‚Äô that Jesus Christ launched in the gospel to all men . . . .”
Part of the genius of St. Francis de Sales was that he not only asserted that devotion was possible in every way of life, but that he insisted that devotion could be carried out in different ways, depending upon one’s vocation in life:
“Devotion must be exercised in different ways by the gentleman, the worker, the servant, the prince, the widow, the young girl, and the married woman. Not only is this true, but the practice of devotion must also be adapted to the strength, activities, and duties of each particular person. . . . It is an error, or rather a heresy, to wish to banish the devout life from the regiment of soldiers, the mechanic‚Äôs shop, the court of princes, or the home of married people. It is true, Philothea, that purely contemplative, monastic, and religious devotion cannot be exercised in such states of life. However, besides those three kinds of devotion there are several others adapted to bring perfection to those living in the secular state.”
. . . .Wherever we may be, we can and should aspire to a perfect life.
ack. the link as I typed it ended in a colon. if you click on it, you get a 404 FNF error … so click on this instead, with my apologies:
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/MARAPR99/universal.html
“I was thrown a bit when someone I know (protestant) told me Calvin was the first to do what is somewhat simmilar to OD, and to tell people that their ordinary work was Holy.”
Well he was the first to emphasize it. Work, one’s calling”, was the activity in which you demonstrated your election, so it was very important to be successful at it. Of course, Calvin didn’t actually claim success at work proved you were part of the Elect, but later more sloppy interpretations of Calvin by the ministry made it.
Here’s a Church Father who, speaking about daily work and prayer, sounds quite similar to the founder of Opus Dei:
“What a wonderful thing it is to imitate on earth the choir of the angels, preparing oneself for prayer at the first hour of the day and glorifying the Creator with hymns and praise. And later, when the sun is at its height, full of splendour and light, doing one’s work to the accompaniment of prayer on all sides, seasoning one’s actions, so to speak, with the salt of ejaculatory prayers.” S. Basil, Epistle II, 3
I’ve always thought that it would be interesting study the homilies that preachers gave to medieval trade guilds. I bet they talk a fair bit about the Christian meaning of work.
Calvin was really coming from a completely different perspective – as ARN says. Some people make exaggerated claims about him and Luther in this regard. They were both totally opposed to “works” as a means of sanctification. Heck, they were even against prayer as a mean of sanctification! So one can imagine how likely it is that they thought work was going to do the trick.
Sandra, I’ll be up in Stockholm.
I agree with both ARN and Fa.Wauck… According to Calvin God had allready decided on who were to be the “elect”.. The individual had none, or at most very little influence neither through *works* nor prayer.
>>> “Within scholastic Calvinist theology, there are two schools of thought over when and whom God predestined: supralapsarianism (from the Latin: supra, “before” + lapsare, “to fall”) and infralapsarianism (from the Latin: infra, “after”).
The former view, sometimes called “high Calvinism,” argues that the Fall occurred partly to facilitate God’s purpose to choose some individuals for salvation and some for damnation.
Infralapsarianism, sometimes called “low Calvinism,” is the position that, while the Fall was indeed planned, it was not planned with reference to who would be saved.
Supralapsarians believe that God chose which individuals to save before he decided to allow the race to fall and that the Fall serves as the means of realization of that prior decision to send some individuals to hell and others to heaven (that is, it provides the grounds of condemnation in the reprobate and the need for salvation in the elect).
In contrast, infralapsarians hold that God planned the race to fall logically prior to the decision to save or damn any individuals because, it is argued, in order to be “saved,” one must first need to be saved from something and therefore the decree of the Fall must precede predestination to salvation or damnation.”
There were and are,as many *Reformists* as *Reformed Religions* Zwinglians,Philippists,Lutherians,Calvanists etc…. One of whom influenced Thomas Cranmer; Andreas Osiander..
He believed that justification for a Christian believer resulted by Christ dwelling in a person. Contrary to Luther’s belief that justification was imputed by God’s grace, Osiander believed that the righteousness of a believer was accomplished by the indwelling of God , thus, God finds one righteous because Christ is in that person. Calvin refuted these views of Osiander also.. The idea that ONLY through God’s Grace can Man be
saved and that Man can do nothing to earn such salvation (as the elect have allready been chosen by God)
is one of the foremost theories of Calvinism..
The.fact that the Catholic Church despite many difficulties it has had to over come,still stays true to it’s origins (in it’s substance), for ca’ 2000 years and the fact that *Protestantism* / Reformed Churches,right from the begining have not been able,to this day,to agree on the fundamental issues,must be proof that there is NO substance to their theories,just a lot of PROSTEST..ism.
On the other hand,the Reformation did efect certain long needed *reforms* within the Catholic Church…
Many of the accusations made by Luther were not without justification (this had to be acknowledged by the Catholic Church);- Uneducated priests,Nepotism,Concubinage Corruption etc.
New religious orders were a fundamental part of this trend. Orders such as the Capuchins, Ursulines, Theatines, the Barnabites, and especially the Jesuits strengthened rural parishes, improved popular piety, helped to curb corruption within the church, and set examples that would be a strong impetus for Catholic renewal. The Theatines were an order of devoted priests who undertook to check the spread of heresy and contribute to a regeneration of the clergy. The Capuchins, an offshoot of the Franciscan order notable for their preaching and for their care for the poor and the sick, grew rapidly in both size and popularity. The Capuchin fathers were an order based on the imitation of Jesus’ life as described by the Gospels. Capuchin-founded confraternities took special interest in the poor and lived austere lifestyles. These differing approaches were often complementary, as with the missions to rural areas poorly served by the existing parish structure. Members of orders active in overseas missionary expansionism expressed the view that the rural parishes, whose poor state of affairs contributed to the growth of Protestantism, often needed Christianizing as much as heathens of Asia and the Americas. The Ursulines focused on the special task of educating girls. Their devotion to the traditional works of mercy exemplifies the Catholic Reformations reaffirmation of salvation through faith and works..
This one must admit,was at least one good result of *Reformation / Protestantism….
“According to Calvin God had allready decided on who were to be the ‚Äúelect‚Äù.. The individual had none, or at most very little influence neither through *works* nor prayer.”
Yeah, Catholicism certainly had a kinder gentler vision of God. You’re the helpless victim of a capricious and not too reasonable type of tyrant is what the Calvinists were arguing, and not only that you were required to think Him lovable and to worship Him, an entity who we would deplore as monstrous if He were a fellow human. Did it ever occur to Calvinists who took this seriously that not having kids would be a sort of end run around this dismal state of affairs. I dunno, this would be the first thing I’d think of.
Yet there it is, this hugely successful religious movement that fast forwarded Capitalism ( Max Weber’s theory from one of Soc 101′s Ur texts.) It doesn’t seem to have much appeal as an ideology. Go figure.
Funny- I came in from work late last night to read up on the discussion here about…work!
Re: the whole Protestant/Catholic faith/works discussion– I think I’ve mentioned here before that the group home where I work is run by an evangelical Protestant agency. I recall not long after I was hired having a brief discussion with the program manager who, as I recall, didn’t think it was a such a big deal anymore, that you really couldn’t have one without the other, each necessarily entails the other (these are not his exact words, just what I recall of the sense of what he said). And I know that the attitude I’ve heard expressed in the context of whatever in-house training I have been given is that we must bear in mind that we are working in the presence of God and so must always do our very best to behave professionally even when we are working on our own (in this line of work there are a lot of young people for whom this is their first professional work after graduating, so there are always a couple of minutes at any of our ongoing training events that address professional behaviour)– unity of life, in other words. Now, I haven’t heard anything similar to the Catholic teaching of offering up one’s work and uniting it to our Lord’s sacrifice on the cross, but it goes to show you that there is enough common ground for fruitful discussion with our Protestant brothers and sisters, and that we can all encourage each other on our way (no, don’t worry, I’m not planning to convert to Protestantism, just making an observation is all).
Peter Kreeft (former Protestant) on Justification by Faith: (it’s a clear and concise article)
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0027.html
And here, something I came across doing a little reading after that brief discussion with my immediate boss:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
It is the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church! (It’s possible someone here has linked to this before…)
Yep!!! according to Calvin; “your dammned if you do, and dammned if you don’t”
Ok, we should still be good Christians… even if we do end up in Hell… sounds like; “it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other”… Lutherians opossed this theory because it would discourage the faithfull from Prayer,and other Christian acts….. I can see the sense in that!!!!
” We now consider the book of life; concerning which there are three points of inquiry” ;
(1) What is the book of life?
(2) Of what life is it the book?
(3) Whether anyone can be blotted out of the book of life?
http://www.catholicprimer.org/summa/FP/FP024.html
Calvin claims to have been influenced by the writings of Augustinus…
In this link we can see his error:
http://www.catholicprimer.org/summa/FP/FP116.html#FPQ116OUTP1
Look to ; “whether there be such a thing as fate?”
This may explain the *confusion*…
)
I am still a little *confused myself*… (not unusual for me
Well ARN , yes it looks like (acording to Calvin) “your dammned if you do, and dammned if you don’t”
The atheist would conclude; “it’s 6 of one,and half a dozen of the other”
As Calvin claims to have been influenced by the writings of Augustinus (which he often quoted)..
Here is a link which I found, that could *explain*, but also refute his errors; I can for the *laity* have led to the confusion… It still confuses me ( not unusual)..
St.Thomas Aquinas
“The Summa Theologica”
We come now to the consideration of fate. Under this head there are four points of inquiry:
(1) Is there such a thing as fate?
2) Where is it?
3) Is it unchangeable?
(4) Are all things subject to fate?
(go to “Is fate unchangable?”)
http://www.catholicprimer.org/summa/FP/FP116.html#FPQ116OUTP1
As I recall, Thomas of Aquinas was not allways in total agreement with Augustinus..
Yes Michelle I agree, there are many a “commom denominator” between the two..
Many still think that Lutherians do not believe in “The Real Presence”.
This was one of the many differences between Calvinism and Lutheranism..
Calvin, admonished Luther, in his writings, for still clinging to the, “remmnants of Popery” ( Real Presence)
The link above is perhaps not completely *relivant* to Calvin’s “elect theory” but does IMO give an insight into how Calvin came to Quote Augustinus.. (erroneously of course)..
I would like to *hear* your thoughts on this.. (naturally anyone else as well)
Fa. Wauck… so it’s Sweden, well, one of my daughter in law’s family come from there, G??teborg…
As I said… *no escape*
Ooops!!! Correction: *relevant*…
Here is St. Josemaria on CHristian hope, one source of which is trust in God’s Divine Providence:
” The virtue of hope assures us that God governs us with his all powerful providence and that he gives us all the means we need. Hope makes us aware of Our Lord’s constant good will towards mankind, towards you and me”
Different from what we normally think of when we use the word “fate”, which has a negative connotation to it and which doesn’t allow for the cooperation of our free will, which is God-given.
Here is the rest of the quote:
http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/friends_of_god-point-218.htm
Yes Michelle, the very same to which Augustinus referes to in the link I gave … He advises *caution* when using the term *fate*… Which has a smacking of the *occult*… and totaly disregards the *free will* which is a gift from God.. Of course which ought also to be aplied with caution…;
“So therefore inasmuch as all that happens here below is subject to Divine Providence, as being pre-ordained, and as it were “fore-spoken,” we can admit the existence of fate: although the holy doctors avoided the use of this word, on account of those who twisted its application to a certain force in the position of the stars. Hence Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1): “If anyone ascribes human affairs to fate, meaning thereby the will or power of God, let him keep to his opinion, but hold his tongue.” For this reason Gregory denies the existence of fate: wherefore the first objection’s solution is manifest.”
Although,most know that I am not a *fan* of Augustinus… he certainly has a point…
The Quote I gave above, does to a certain extent apply to Calvin.. don’t you think?
Anyway, “Guys and Dolls”, I am pleased to report that our sponsored race was a great success..
We can now take on the task of “refurbishing” our playground.. as soon as the summer break starts, hopefully it will be finished by school begin in august.. we had allready (confident that our parents would all *pull their weight* )started to acquire very much needed equipment..could we call that *fate* ???
Or just plain faith in the community ??? The later is prob. more likely..
When do the summer holls start in USA. / Canada …
PS.. Helen, hope you did not have any damage to your property…(recent bad weather in Chicago) and more important that you and yours are all ok..??
All is well here basically, but out of concern for the computer, since its new, and the one I use ha ha, I left it unplugged to avoid the tragedy you had a while back Sandra, with yours. Thanks for inquiring on us Sandra. Looks like Father will be close to your grip, but far enough away to remain safe.;) lol.
I will bite my tongue and not comment on some things said here, to be a good girl. One thought, would be to re read one of Jerry’s earlier posts that summarized beliefs on the Eucharist by non catholics, I agree with his post completely. I don’t care that X denom claims they believe this or that, what is important is, is there merit to their claim, and how do they officially explain it to their flock.
That is where I will leave it, as we all know I can get pretty cranked up with some real good back and forths with comments I see that, well- get my hair curled.
Arn, you can see why I don’t care much for Calvin, very simply what you posted, a unlovable God- is enough for me. I never thought of the “better to not have children” angle, but then I have heard those who deny OS claim that of us also. They say, OS is false, and if it were true, the kindest thing to do would to remain childless. Another example of what I call Sesame Street theology. They oversimplfy it and never bother to understand it.
In the catholic school here summer holiday started with her grad date. The public school, or “publics” as they are not so lovingly refered to by some (not me) go another 2 weeks. But they get to sleep in, and dont start at 8:05 am. They start at 8:45am. And, their year starts later also. I prefer our schedule of course.
Because, I can still make 8:45 Mass, something the catholic parents that dont work at that time, can not make in time. I have asked if they could move it to 9:00 when I taught CCD, but they sorta gave me a blank stare at that request. I thought it would help them be able to attend, I guess that was not a good idea? Oh well, God has a plan I am sure He knows why it is that way.
I knew I would live to see the day Sandra would agree with Augustine and say something nice about him at some point!
Prayers answered!
I am working on a real rough draft to try to help someone close to me, get out of the grip of the charasmatic health wealth false gospel. Its very rough. But, I need to get it to her before she goes with this “friend” of hers that is taking her to this cult group on wed nights, so I have time to clean it up. I hate to see her slip into this heresy.
Suffering in the Bible as taught by the apostles, and carried down by the successors of the apostles in the Bride of Christ, that is, the One Holy and Apostolic Church founded by Christ built on Peter, who teaches Redemptive Suffering.
(not sure I should or can add that as I am unsure if I have it right here, but it looks nice)
“We do not really want a religion that is right where we are right. What we want, is a religion that is right where we are wrong.”
G.K. Chesterton
Mysteries, are just that. The role of suffering in God’s plan for creation is a mystery. The more that we attempt to unmask mysteries, they no longer are- by definition a mystery. Where do we stop? If we decide to discount one mystery, why hold on to any? Which ones do we keep, which do we toss?
Let’s just look at one aspect of suffering. Christ transformed suffering into an act of Love. And, further- transformed death (which once was an end of things) into eternal life.
When confronted with suffering, we all ask Why? The comforting thing about this human response, is you are not alone in asking this.
“My God, why have you forsaken me?”
Jesus himself spoke these words, from the Psalms. It was prophecy, he would.
He also promised we would never be alone.
When we help each other with our crosses, we do so knowing even Jesus had help carrying His.
Sufferings offered up to God, merit graces for the conversion of sinners.
You may ask, where in the bible does this become clear?
I ask, if we as Catholics do not do this- Who will? Who else does this? Can there be a reason why we do this that is important?
God did not create us for eternal suffering. However, temporal suffering seems to be clear in the bible.
I am sure, it was a cross to bear, to be in Paradise and given everything yet being told there is one thing you must not do. It seems like letting a kid loose in a candy store, and telling them they can eat all the candies but the green ones. But, their cross was the sin of pride in believing “surely you will not die” rather than trust in Him, who they knew as their creator.
Humble acceptance of crosses, patiently borne, seems to be evident here. Obedience.
In the New Heavens, and New Earth, Jesus tells us He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, there will be no more death, or mourning or crying or pain, for the order of things has passed away.
We are not in the New Heavens and New Earth now, so we still are subject to these, and many other sufferings.
Augustine: Let us understand that God is a physician, and that suffering is a medicine for salvation, not a punishment for damnation.
Nothing is fair in this life. The only fair thing, will be God’s judgement of us when our lives are over.
Jesus said, Not my will, but Thine be done.
He was obedient until death. Surely we must consider this is an important consideration.
Apostolic Letter Salvifici Doloris for further reading (JPII of blessed memory)
Col 1:24, 25
There is no wanting in the suffering of Christ, by many suffering are still wanting, or still to come, in His Body the Church, and his members the faithful.
1 Cor 12:26
Romans 8:17
Malachi 3:2
John 9:3
2 Tim 2:3, 3:12
1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:13, 4:16, 5:10
Mark 8:35 – Christ’s cross was for propriation, ours is for propagation (spread of salvation message/ gospel)
CCC 618
Philippians 2:30, and 2:37, 2:39
We preach Christ and Him Crucifyed— (fit this in somehow)
Preternatural Gifts- one aspect of 3 I think is redemptive suffering if I am correct
Annointing of the Sick- 1 of the effects is to join in redemptive suffering
This does not even address the many martyrs in the bible and since the bible!
Satan accused Job, perhaps he accuses many of us now.
Paul had a thorn in the flesh. He spoke of when he was weak he is strong.
Genesis 50:20
The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the name.
(need citation there)
So, when someone claims redemptive suffering is not a doctrinally sound teaching, I reply-
1 John 4:1
My thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are not your ways
(need citation here)
We can not limit time by saying the moment Jesus Christ died on the Cross, he took away suffering to His.
I day could be a thousand days for God
(need citation)
God is outside of time, and space.
We mere silly humans can rely on the Holy Spirit for he intercedes for us, Romans 8
But, we are obligated to follow Catholic teaching on these matters with docility.
Some say Original sin started with the devil rather than Adam and Eve, (they participated with the devil in his OS) Based on John 8:44.
This does not remove the very real truth that redemptive suffering is a doctrinally sound teaching.
We share in his death at baptism, and his life.
Suffering as a consequence of OS leading toward salvation in Christ’s life, death and resurrection.
As we offer prayers for others, we offer suffering for others.
Again, these are random notes, I must make more organized and clear. But, if anyone sees any heresy in this, let me know before I give it to her.
Helen, I *love* you…
You are so to the point…
As you know I am sooooo very into *disputation*..
I like to weigh up the *pros and contras*..
But then that is exactly what is aksed of us..”Fidees et Ratio” If not where would we be today??
The OT. is for Hebrew Fath the *non plus ultra* The NT. is for Christianity the *fullfillment*
Without which the whole Bible would be *meanenless*..
—————–*Fides et ratio*—————
—————–*Meaningless*——————
……………..sorry everyone…………….. (she says blushing)
Helen, maybe these will help:
The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the name. Acts 5:41
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
Isaiah 55:8
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
II Peter 3:8
(All translations from New American Standard Bible).
One further thought, Helen: as I may have hinted in earlier posts, I spent the better part of two decades actively involved in the charismatic movement, both inside and outside the Catholic Church. There are plenty of pros and cons we could debate about it, but I’m with St. Charles Borromeo, bishop of Milan: “always seek that which unites rather than that which divides.”
That said, one of the most effective counters to the “prosperity gospel” heresy that I’ve found is asking them whether martyrs old and new were “outside of God’s will” or “missed the blessing,” not just classical martyrs like Justin, but contemporary ones too, like Vanya (if they’re evangelical, they’ll recognize his name), or Corrie Ten Boom, or Richard Wurmbrand.
Pax,
Jerry
Wow, Helen, your little one is lucky to be finished school before the real heat hits! Mine will be in their non-air conditioned elementary school until the end of June, and the high school kids will be writing exams in a school where the air conditioning has broken down. They’re probably tired of me saying “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”. Thank heavens today is finally sunny, cool and breezy. Enjoy your summer with your little one!
Here’s a literary reference that rolls Calvinism and a “prosperity gospel” reference up into one (re-reading one of my favourite novels a couple of nights ago due to heat wave-induced insomnia): the banker Nicholas Bulstrode in George Eliot’s Middlemarch. His personal theology and his own ego and selfishness enabled him to rationalize his ill-gotten money and worse. On the bright side, by the end of the novel he’s suffered enough of a downfall to be faced with the depths of his own depravity and is finally humbled enough to begin the process of conversion.
Hope that didn’t seem too random! Have a wonderful day everyone, and God Bless!
Not nearly as impressive as Middlemarch (a great novel, Michelle, and not at all random IMHO: but quite germane, in fact), here’s one of my favourite aphorisms from the Sage of Baltimore, H.L. Mencken (1880-1956): “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
And this one, with great gobs of snark, from Ambrose Bierce (1842-1913): “Predestination is the doctrine that all things occur according to programme. This doctrine should not be confused with that of foreordination, which means that all things are programmed, but does not affirm their occurrence, that being only an implication from other doctrines by which this is entailed. The difference is great enough to have deluged Christendom with ink, to say nothing of the gore. With the distinction of the two doctrines kept well in mind, and a reverent belief in both, one may hope to escape perdition if spared.”
“…the Sage of Baltimore, H.L. Mencken (1880-1956): ‚ÄúPuritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.‚Äù”"
Ah…Ambrose Bierce and HL Mencken, kings of the sardonic and ynical… Here’s his inimitable obituary for Calvin Coolidge, damning him with faint praise to say the least:
“Counting out Harding as a cipher only, Dr. Coolidge was preceded by one World Saver and followed by two more. What enlightened American, having to choose between any of them and another Coolidge, would hesitate for an instant? There were no thrills while he reigned, but neither were there any headaches. He had no ideas, and he was not a nuisance.”
I think he also came up with the oxymoron “a simple, barefoot Wall Street lawyer”. This comes to mind as Whiz Kid is serving as an intern for a brokerage in the financial district, with dreams of becoming a future Tom Wolfe style “Master of the Universe”
Yeah, I decided to omit the Coolidge obit, but I’m really glad you didn’t. I will pray for your Whiz Kid; mine is presently chasing his CPA with real estate limited partnership accounting in DC: not really that much safer, spiritually.
You are all so wonderful, I am so blessed!
Well, I just settled in after, *gasp* coming home from going with her to this place. If you can’t beat them, you can be there with them, praying for them all I say. And, it was a touch odd to me. Not as bad asthe “Healing service” I told you all about before that she took me to (a so called catholic priest presiding, from “Rome” – no other info on him of course)
This was a bit, uncomfortable at first. Everyone wanting to touch everyone, lots of holding and clinging, in circles, then about a half hour passed before the “service” began. I recall that with my mom, with the JW’s.
Their “meetings” had a built in 20-30 min “happy talk” time with members.
I hope and pray I don’t come off sounding mean here, but- I am amazed by this, truly.
Then, the man leading this not sure if he is called a Rev, Min, or Pastor, because they did not give me a bulletin, or anything.
I know a man named Steve, got up to their pulpit and said many things about the bible regarding war.
Then, he went out into the “pew” (just chairs, set up in rows) and randomly grabbed people, grabbing their hand to get them to stand up, and then in their face asking them if they felt Jesus in them.
“He is here!” Steve repeated, each time he held someone up from seating.
Finally, he whipped them up into a frenzy, all chanting “He is here!”
And, that is the nicest thing I can say, as Thumper’s mom said., ” If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all”
Well, something good happened. I prayed the entire time to Mary to help intercede for me, and some other saints.
On the way home, in the car we passed a 24 HR adoration chapel. (Its bonifide- trust me)
I asked her if she would go with me to adoration.
She did.
She wanted to leave shortly before the hour, but I was so happy she even entertained my request!
God loves her, and wants her to be back on track!
I am trying to offer up all my sufferings, for her now, so that she may never slip.
So, I must confess to you all, I am not getting her with facts/knowledge.
Sandra, you need to come here and help me!
I just need to say, that I came here a very conficted/confused person, (still am) but, I am very grateful for all who have helped me, (and you all have)
I felt very alone in all this, for so long. But, I know there is a reason, that I am not aware of that is better for me that it is this way.
Michelle, I am sorry yours are still in school! But, here we start early, and early in the morning also!
You gave me so much “homework”, (not just now, but along the way) and every suggestion you have made has been most exellent. I think, you were the one who led me to Peter Kreft. Amoung other things!
Sandra, you know I love you. Never will stop, unless in purgatory there is a “stop”.?
Jerry, Thank you for the bible verses! I gave it to her w/o citations, hoping she would ask me “where is this?”
And, I only knew it from memory.
You gave me the citations!
If she will read then, we can hope this fantasy will dissolve, and end.
The Mass is Not boring, if one knows what all the things are that are happening in the Mass, and how it is really revealed in the book of Revelation. (mostly).
I know its early to wish Happy Father’s Day..
But, I will be praying esp. For all fathers, and Fathers, during this time.
Let’s as friends in Christ, all pray especially harder now, for all the Fathers in the world.
Thank you Father Wauck, for this blog, and for helping me in my journey in the Catholic faith.
I am very blessed, and grateful.
Pre- happy Father’s Day to all, and love to all
http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/blog.cfm?id=241
Has anyone heard of this? I just found now.
How about a spiritual bouquet for all our spiritual Fathers this Sunday: Mass, Communion, and Rosary? And maybe send them a little note/card/email to thank them for their spiritual Fatherhood and its benefits in our lives? Just a thought…
Jerry– good idea! Something else to pray for on Sunday: the start of the Eucharistic Congress in Quebec City. Here is a link to the official prayer (English version) of the Congress:
http://www.cei2008.ca/en/priereducei2008
Helen– “homework”, eh? Well, I guess since I’m married to a teacher I’ve been unduly influenced! Glad you like Peter Kreeft. If anyone ever has the chance to hear him speak, I highly recommend it. We had him out to Toronto many years back for a conference, and he is an engaging and approachable speaker. One of the books we gave our newly-confirmed daughter is his book Your Questions God’s Answers (we always try to give them something that will serve as a good reference book for the high school years). It’s a slim book that is very readable.
Middlemarch, on the other hand, is a lengthy novel, but the story is great and has a lot to say about human nature. If anyone is interested in the novel but doesn’t have time to read it, the DVD of the 1994 BBC production is excellent, very true to the book. In fact, one of the reasons I was initially interested in the new Brideshead movie was that an actor from Middlemarch, Patrick Malahide (playing a note-perfect Mr. Causabon) will be playing Edward Ryder (Charles’ father). Unfortunately, as noted above, the new Brideshead looks like it’s going to be pretty stinky.
Someone – no, not me – has put up this Associated Press interview I did this morning in front of St. Peter’s about Presidnet Bush’s meeting with Benedict XVI.
http://www.mefeedia.com/feeds/28425/
Friends,
For those who follow the media and politics, sad news: Tim Russert, long-time host of NBC-TV’s “Meet The Press,” has died suddenly at the age of 58. His premier passion was family — his best selling book, “Big Russ and Me,” honored his father, who survives him. A blue-collar product of Buffalo, NY, Russert was proud to be a product of Catholic education, frequently crediting the nuns and later the Jesuits who educated him for his professional success (he was also the first American journalist to negotiate and conduct a one-on-one interview with Pope John Paul II).
May the angels welcome him, and may the Loving Father comfort his family: his son Luke, who has just graduated from Boston College, and his wife, the writer Maureen Orth.
When I followed Father’s link above, it didn’t go to the video containing his interview right away, I had to dig a bit, here’s the link I got to:
http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/pope-welcomes-president-at-vatican/10019590/
There are also a few AP video clips about Mr. Russert there.
I was really fond of Russert. We shared quite a few “similarities.” Fifteen years older than me, he’s the age of my oldest sibling. He grew up just over one and a half miles from me. He went to Jesuit Canisius High School, while I attended the two rival Franciscan High Schools (one that was just 2 blocks from where he grew up).
Both of our dads came back from service in WWII and worked two full-time blue collar jobs to put their kids through catholic schools, during the economically challenging 60’s and 70’s – lives of true heroic love for the sake of their families.
Here are a couple quotes that I thought you might all appreciate:
On the role of faith while growing up:
‚ÄúReligion was everywhere in our lives‚Äînot just in church or in school, but at home, too. There were crosses above our beds, and every evening, when we sat down to supper, one of us said grace…. During the month of May, Mary‚Äôs month, we‚Äôd light a candle every day, and Mom would bring in flowers from the garden.‚Äù
‚ÄúReligion was serious business. The priests and nuns impressed upon us the idea that Christmas meant more than toys and that Easter went beyond candy.”
On childhood lessons (brought back a ton of memories for me):
“You incorporate it into your life, into a way of thinking. If you come to encounter other obstacles in life, I always think, ‘This is nothing compared to walking against the wind at age six in a snowstorm in South Buffalo.’ Everything else flows pretty easily from that.”
And this nice exchange the first time he met Pope John Paul II:
“’You are the man called Timothy (Timotty) from NB Chee?’”
“I said yes, ‘Your Holiness — don’t ever forget this face.’”
“They tell me you are a very important man in broadcasting.”
“And I replied with all due and deep respect, ‘Your Holiness, there are only two us in this room, and I am a most distant second.’”
‚ÄúHe put his hands on my shoulders, looked me in the eyes and said, ‚ÄòRight.‚Äô”
Well, it’s not the worst thing to go out at the top of your game, and at least it was quick. Scary though… he was 58, my husband’s age! Can’t imagine he would have inadequate medical care–NBC’s insurance company would insist. He had a stressful job and he had the rep of a hard charger. Prob had a tough time keeping his weight down, and he had the look of someone with HBP. A lesson to us all: Slow down and take care of yourself.
“Well, it’s not the worst thing to go out at the top of your game, and at least it was quick.”
True enough if you just run the calculations from Tim’s point of view, I guess. But isn’t it always specially difficult to imagine burying your own child, as his elderly father will be doing in a few days?
Not to mention the grief of his wife and son.
Father,
Did you ever come in contact with Russert in your days in the Attorney General’s office? I think he started on Meet the Press right around the same time that Mr. Barr became AG.
Helen,
Just wanted to let you know that I haven’t forgotten about Anthony. I’m waiting for the information. I hope to have it within a day or two.
“True enough if you just run the calculations from Tim‚Äôs point of view, I guess. But isn‚Äôt it always specially difficult to imagine burying your own child, as his elderly father will be doing in a few days?
“Not to mention the grief of his wife and son.”
A terrible thing to be sure. But don’t waste sympathy on celebrities. My poor aunt in Northern Va. comes immediately to mind, a woman who buried her husband (my father’s brother) aged 59, and later 2 of her 7 children. Alas, the least wild and crazy of that dysfunctional bunch. And she didn’t have Russert’s wealth or rep as the survivor of a beloved icon either.
Not pickin’ on you–just think there’s way too much sympathy expended on those whose wealth and good fortune embody situations way beyond the most fevered dreams of avarice and adulation indulged in by the rest of us.
Yes, Arn, he is my husband’s age also. My husband is, as many here may know much older than I am.
It was another horrible reminder of how we can have such a short time here. I am very mindful of that, in all things I do each day.
Jerry- I like your idea! I will, even if late- join you with that suggestion. And, I will be going to 10:30 Mass tomorrow, with all fathers, and Fathers in my heart.
Tony, no hurry! He is still at home now, and is actually getting calmer, being finally able to relax and be with his family and friends for now, knowing -he has never known anything else.
He will be happy just to know there are people who are praying for his trip, and his ability to be a mirror of Christ to those he is with there. I know he can do it.
Michelle- you are so blessed! I would like to have more exposure to such things, but God made sure I would be here- so I should be happy with what I have.
I have you all, in my heart, in my prayers.
Arn, I dont know from personal experience what its like, but my gradmother and grandfather also buried a child. I am sad reading about your family’s loss.
And thinking about our friends and loved ones facing challenges we can’t imagine.
Its horrible to fathom, outliving your children- esp if you had a mispent youth- did all the wrong things, and yet live *forever* …
I think Tony meant to emphasise it only because it does apply to so very many people, not to say that it only applies to celebs.
In any case, we can all agree the only “celeb” we adore is Jesus Christ. Our Risen Lord.
Sandra, love you.
Live streaming of opening Mass for Eucharistic Congress today 3:45 pm ET
http://saltandlighttv.org/prog_special_eic49.html
Thanks for the link, Michelle. I’ll be keeping that in my prayers.
No, Tony, I don’t remember having met Russert while working for the Attorney General. Actually, it probably would have been more likely while I was working for Gov. Casey in PA. Attorney General Barr didn’t get that much press attention.
He was good. He and Cokie Roberts always struck me as the last of a certain kind of Catholic in the media. He worked for Cuomo and Moynihan, and she came from the Democratic Catholic Boggs family of Louisiana (her mom was over here as ambassador to the Vatican under Clinton). The things you quote him saying above about his Catholic upbringing… I don’t think there are any media types who could say the same things now. Oddly enough, though, I think that there will be in a few more years – that is to say, a new generation of Catholics whose upbringing resembles that of an earlier generation.
Along similar lines, I saw something in the papers recently about pro-life views being more common among the young than among the middle aged (I believe the statistics referred only to Catholics).
Do you see that Rectory across the street? It’s a home for unwed Father’s.
(taken from the homily this morning, by a very good priest)
My thoughts went to how I could do more to make the priests in my parish feel as if, they have a family, in me- in my child, in my family. They are always there for us. Where are we for them?
It makes me wonder if I do this with Jesus himself. Do I spend enough time with Him, to make Him feel as if He is family? Would He feel comfortable to come into my home, and eat with us?
He could be walking by right now. Would I recognize Him?
I know, it sounds pretty corny, but I think I have missed Him a few times, maybe a lot of times.
Good evening F.Wauck and all..(morning here),
)
I read the last part of your above comment with interest..
Yes it seems that the *younger generation* are more *religion orientated*..
This, in my opinion, has a lot to do with the fact that the film industrie has found that Religion *sells*..
There has been a tremendous increase in *faith based* films..
The Passion,The Nativity,Stigmata,Evan Almighty etc.
Not to mention the other relatively associated (for example), The Golden Compass; The Narnia.. These types of film apeal to a religious / younger audience… So much so that many of the larger film companies have even started “web sites” to promote their films by apealing to the div. religious groups. the following is from a NYTimes article…
“The Passion of the Christ. The movie demonstrated just how many evangelical moviegoers there are and how much money can be made from them”.
“Mindful of that market, Universal Pictures has teamed up with Grace Hill Media, a public relations firm that reaches out to religious groups, to publicize the mainstream film ”Evan Almighty.”
“The Walt Disney Company pursued a similar strategy in 2005, holding private screenings of The Chronicles of Narnia: the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe for religious leaders before the film’s general release. It went on to make almost $300 million at the box office in the United States.”
” Other studios have gone even further in trying to win evangelicals’ favor. Last year, 20th Century Fox created FoxFaith, a unit dedicated to making movies with religious themes.”
“According to Adam Fogelson, the president of marketing for Universal, the studio has had many conversations about appealing to the faithful ever since Mr. Gibson’s blockbuster. ”I don’t believe there is a way — or maybe I’m just not sophisticated or smart enough to know what that way is — to use traditional marketing tactics or tricks to convince the faith audience the film is appropriate for them,”
“While the official Web site for the film, evanalmighty.com, provides links to sites about environmental conservation and global warming, it does not include any mention of Universal’s outreach to religious groups. But Mr. Fogelson said that omission did not reflect ambivalence toward marketing to them.
He pointed out that Universal had also undertaken marketing efforts to appeal to Latino and youth audiences.”
…..Are we being *duped* or is there an ulteria motive in all of this… ????…
I read in another article (forgotten where) that..”Hollywood needs Religion as much as religion thrives from Hollywood” The Vatican (as I have read)is in the process of being involved in the making of one (or more) films in this gender.. is this true??.
Well all of you, I must admit to not being *up to date* on the blog at the moment, too much going on here at the moment.. Please keep my daughter in your thoughts,she is going through a difficult phase at the moment..
I keep you ALL in my thoughts.. even when I do not have very much time to comment.. (I sure do make up for that when I do
Helen…. I do you too….
ARN, I agree with your last comment, how many (to us unknown) families,this very moment,will be mourning
a loved one.. Loss hurts us all,no matter how well,or less known to the rest of the world… They are all precious, to a mother,father,brother,sister,son or daughter..
I wish you all a very peacefull and good night /day / evening…
Dear All,
Just checking in with my “family” online. Terrible storms came barreling through Detroit today, high winds, driving rains: but nothing like our friends in Iowa have had to contend with. So I offered up my headaches (when the barometer goes crazy, so do my migraines) for them, hoping that it might bring a little mitigation.
A home for unwed Fathers! Perfect. But of course they are wed, in a very deep way, to Christ the Lord (in one sense, I think it’s fair to say that all of us in the Spouse of Christ are in that boat: if my theology’s out of whack, please feel free to correct it). Even so I suspect that being shown and told that they’re loved and valued wouldn’t hurt a bit.
Good to know that the younger generation (that’s you, Fr. John: I’m middleaged, and you’re… 16?
) is increasingly comfortable being publicly pro-life. Here in Ann Arbor we have strong Catholic radio, and so there’s lots of visible encouragement to take that stand. But that’s far from the norm elsewhere, I suspect.
The more I read about the media, the more I find myself thinking, “Hey! That’s me, too! I’m a composer: that’s part of the arts and communication that shapes culture.” And then I think, “How little have I really accomplished — and Tim Russert was only 3 years older than I am: how much time do I have left to make a difference?”
And then, to my knees….
Love to all.
Sandra, you and your precious one(s) are in our daily prayers. I am glad that now she is out of school, we can attend daily Mass together! Not just on her odd days off. We bike, strike that- she bikes and I run along side- to the chapel, and the priests are nice enough to let us bring her bike into the the building, (far enough away from the chapel itself)
I am glad to hear you are okay Jerry. Watching the news, I saw your area and wondered if you would be okay..
Please update us as we are a online family here, you are correct!
Oh, my “funny priest” is a theologian of the bunch, and he would agree with you Jerry- without a doubt.
I think, he was trying to get us- to see for a moment, the flip side if you will, with humour.
Don’t worry about what your “scorecard” looks like Jerry. You know in your very deepest part of you that Jesus will not judge you on that. His thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways, I think it is written. Our basis, or lack thereof, better said- is not any indication of what His is.
Migraine.. I am sure you have already heard all the “old wives” remedies for that, strong coffee, (for some reason, always elevate your legs when you can) and never, ever, eat creamy silky smooth ice cream, (or gelato) prior to sleep. Sleep a full 8 hours, ect…
Do I sound like an old auntie? That was her advice when I had them at 17. I can’t say her advice really was helpful, but I can say that it did not hurt much to try it (except for the ice cream part)
As you offer up sufferings, for others, I am happy to do so for yours.
I am in no shortage to offer up. LOL.
You bring up a good point, about redemptive suffering, how valuable it is in the grad scheme of things.
We must continue to pray for those who have no one to pray for them.
I am going to log off, as something just clicked in my head just now.
Calvin, and formal heretics, the emphasis on God’s power alone- and the lack of emphasis on the Cross, and Mary. I think I am on to something here.
Sandra, sometimes I think you post things, just to give me a mini stroke!
Okay, for starters- how is the Passion of Christ – in any way shape or form “evangelical”
That is your homework, to digest.
If I could be so bold to say, its hogwash dolled up. Pig with lipstick, if you will.
Helen,Hi!…. survived the mini stroke I hope
The quote I gave regarding The Passion. and evangelicals is not *from my pen* but from the NYTimes article, which, in turn, quotes a representative from Universal Pictures…. soooooooo, it’s them that are causing your stroke…. shame on them..
In how far the article is hogwash dolled up?? The message is the point I was refering to.. “It seems, Religion sells (for Hollywood)”. James Cameron is certainly making money fron his endevours.. as did Mel Gibson.. The old *clasics*;- ‘The 10 Commandments’, ‘Ben Hur’, ‘Quo Vadis’ also made heaps of money in their day..(and still do) ,so it is in a way, a *revival*.. When people are in need of a *hero* the Bible is a great treasure chest.. Thing is, it is more often than not *misused*
The Movie I refered to in connectin with the Vatican, is about the Virgin Mary -*the person*- not only as the Mother of Christ … It is the first movie (of it’s kind), that the Vatican has *endorsed*..
Fa.Wauck may be able to shed some light on this *story*..
Ah Jerry, yes music is a gift,whether one has the ability to,write,sing,play……..or just enjoy..
Helen, are you thinking the same as I??? Calvin and *music* ??? He was one of the “reformers” who condemmned music as *un-godly* and *pagan* …… A world without music!!! how very empty!!
I do apologize– the link I gave above to the Eucharistic Congress was not the “live streaming” link.
This one is: http://www.saltandlighttv.org/prog_slprog_live.html
Right now Archbishop Wuerl is speaking, next up is Jean Vanier (one of my heroes).
Sorry, I was kite flying with the little one all day. She’s darn good at it.
Sandra, I am relieved you don’t think the Passion of Christ is evangelical in nature. Mini stroke goes to the press on that one.
Calvin and music- you betcha baby! How you must have been in my heart at that moment.
However, I was even going deeper- much deeper- thinking about the gentleness of Marian devotion that is/seems to be missing from charasmatic movements (inside and out of catholisim) and a full front focus on the “POWER” of God- it gets very complex after that- as it really does tie in with other things also, I will try to post after we get back from bike ride (trying to get her off training wheels, still…) We are closer, but not there yet. Afraid of getting hurt, I think. My new neighbors are sick, I think. Long story short, I have tried and tried to go to their door with food, and simply to ask if they need any help (their grass was almost a foot high recently, and the husband looks wiped out. They are not answering, but it could be they are sleeping when I go there. The child met her fist homeless person yesterday. She asked if she could give him (an elderly man) one of the bottles of lemonade we had in the cooler we took to the park. I gave it to him, and he asked, is there alcohol in this? I said, no. He said, thank you. Of course, this was a bit confusing to her. She had a lot of questions, and wanted to talk to him, but I was by myself with her, and nervous. I slipped him cash, with the bottle but, ashamedly ran off in a hurry, not even praying for him.., or asking him if he would like to talk to my priest. I made up an excuse to take her home right away and left.
I was so afraid, I would be putting her at risk. Yes, I could “take” him, but I was nervous, he looked very angry, and very disturbed. I think I messed up again.
May God forgive me. I just can’t take chances with her. She is my only child.
Sandra, you are so darn smart!
No time to check in. The new family next door is in bad shape. The baby is very sick, and so are the parents.
Really fast, my thoughts were going into the rejection of other Sacraments, and why they are rejected. They all seem to be rejected for very simmilar reasons, and mainly the reason is a unbalanced sense of God’s Love.
Jerry, I pray you are okay.
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=MyLFJQ8w3YM
Neil Young “When God made me” Beautiful words…..
I hope you all enjoy…
Have a great Sunday…. I am off to Gabriele,so will be out all day, perhaps I can look in this evening..
Helen could it be that the Neighbours may not have sufficient *Medicare* ? This is, as I have heard, the reason why many can not consult a Doctor as often as they need!!! (not only in USA… )They may feel a little *embarassed* silly as this may be, it is never-the-less,understandable… If you have the means (know-how)you could,very tactfully,try to get help… Ofcourse I may be TOTALY wrong…
Helen,again, we can only do as much as is in our power to help our fellow man / woman… We are, as you have encountered, firstly commited to the members of our immediate family who depend upon us…Your child needs protetion and guidance your actions were quite right… IMO..
Byeeeeeeee 4 now..
Hi all… thanks, Helen for the prayers. I am doing better, still struggling a bit with the barometer and its impacts. But it’s a familiar pattern; as the saying goes, this isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve been in this arena before. All told, it’s a question of management. If I take enough meds for the pain to go away, then I’m way too stupid to drive; if I take almost enough meds, then I can drive and the pain is . . . manageable.
Of course, with the price of gas the more reasons I have not to drive, the better off I probably am. But when the acheys (note the clever use of real medical-technical jargon there, eh?) get really bad, I’m lucky if I can open my eyes enough to read, much less write or compose or be productive. And then I realize that being productive comes in lots of forms, and I grab for my rosary . . .
Love to all.
25 000 people at the Eucharistic Procession in Quebec City yesterday!!!
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0803287.htm
Good morning all…
Michelle thankyou for the link to the Eucharistic Congress I try to watch some of it daily.
afraid that the first one was (on my comp) bad quality so I could not listen to your “Hero”… but now all is great… have a good day and take care, all of you…
Nice report on the Holy Father’s address (via satellite) to the Eucharistic Congress:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13022
And finally, for the feast of St. Jean Baptiste, Canadian Columnist Fr. Raymond deSouza on the Church in Quebec at the close of the Eucharistic Congress:
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=608741
From Fr. deSouza’s column:
“Was there room in Quebec for a confident Catholic voice?
That confusion and fear was left behind last week. There is nothing more fundamental to the Catholic faith than the Eucharist — the belief that Jesus Christ is truly present in the sacrament under the appearance of bread and wine. During the congress, Catholics from around the world joined the Church in Quebec to proclaim that faith. And on Thursday evening, when 20,000 pilgrims filled the streets of the Old City in a Eucharistic procession, the Church in Quebec proclaimed her faith with serenity and confidence, unapologetic about taking her place in the culture that she did so much to shape.”
Glad you are still kicking, even if suffering Jerry. I will offer up my sufferings for you today. You can rest assured, there are many good biggies for today alone!
Sandra, you bring up a good point, I am afraid I don’t know them well enough to know the answer to that one, but rest assured, they must be doing well- they are very young and have bought a house many people can not consider a “first time buyer home” and they gutted it, and remodeled the entire home inside, and some outside.
It could be true, I am not sure. However- I did leave now 2 emails and 2 phone calls to the “welcoming commitie” that has not been welcoming anyone recently (not just them) for some lame reasons.
And, you betcha I know how to hook them up, you are so funny, I love your sense of communicating- as you can make me feel as if I am on the phone with you, in a blog!
It was a case a food poisioning, I am sorry to say. I don’t think it was the killer tomato thing, but their doctor has not ruled it out (ped) and, the bad news is his parents (the ones who are there almost every weekend) are also sick. So, she and the baby are relying on the husband now, with some small help from me once and a while. I was a bit busy with the child’s birthday and all, so I was not as much help as they may have needed lately.
Jerry- the Rosary is comforting to my child, (its more of an effort for me, I admit, yet try so hard to do it)
I know she won’t mind saying one for your pain. In fact, she enjoys having people to pray for. You are just another one she is all too happy to add to her list. Gabrielle is first, before me even! Because, she said: “she is in a emergeney” (that is how she still says it- she corrects herself, but she still says “emergency” “emergeney”.
Therefore, speech evaluation was reccomended. I thought someone shot me in the gut when I heard that.
Well, hallo to all “happy blogers”….
Speech evaluation…. a litle something to that one;-
Friends of our’s (our tax advisor)have one son he,is what one once called a “stutterer”, his uncle (mother’s side),also has one son, but the best of all is that HIS father and Mother are both practising *Linguists” (speech consultants?),can’t think of the right word.. their son ,who by the way does *stutter* quite badly, is a lawyer… So much for speech evaluation… (I do ofcourse think that it is in some cases essential) I,at your daughters age (and a few years older) kept saying “amin” for arm,and “soldier” instead of shoulder….
I’ve grown out of that now..but instead,I now have what one could call;… “typo-affliction”….
Your little one is a real *angel*….
have a nice day all….
Helen– a speech eval is no biggie. Been through some in this house. My oldest son, the brainiac who had his first lab job at the age of 17, was actually unintelligible (not exaggerating) in junior kindergarten (me to teacher: “Actually he’s very bright” teacher: “Ri-i-i-ight”). Took him once a week to speech therapy for 2 years. OTOH, my hearing impaired daughter, after her speech eval, was found to be making only those pronunciation errors that are typical of kids her age. Go figure. I still got some exercises to do with her, though, because I presume she’s going to need a little extra help even over a common developmental hurdle. So much goes into producing correct pronunciation that it’s very common for kids to need a little help. So go for it– they’ll give you all these great exercises that are fun to do, if she needs them. You might find that only a few weeks of targeted practice is all that’s needed to see an improvement. This was the case with another of my kids.
Thanks for the positive thoughts on that matter Sandra and Michelle. She is, according to her report card, excelling in all areas minus this slight thing,(they noted 2 sounds that they think need improvement) which I believe she will grow out of, but of course I will do whatever I must to aid this along. I do feel better going into it now though. I understand her every word, but she is so clever- (she will sometimes choose a shorter word that means nearly or about the same thing at times, when I know she knows much longer ones- if she thinks someone will not understand her to avoid the embarrasment of “what did you say?”) She
does not stutter, but I have heard that stutter can be completely absent when singing. Not sure how that works, but I think Carly Simon had that problem, and some country western singer I cant recall the name of now. I will have to take note the next time she is singing to listen if those noted sounds are clearer when she sings. Since today is a cooler and rainy day we are reading all day and making food together. The first project is a layered jello on a pretzel crust with cream cheese filling inbetween. Topped with fresh strawberries. Then, a chicken dish. Both from a magazine she cut out for us to use as a guide. She will make the sauce. It’s always tastier when you help your mom make it. The reading choices will be the bible, and a finnish alphabet/word book I got from my grandfather when I was her age. Already made a craft project this morning and have the pipe cleaner scratches to prove it.
Good evening,to you all,
Helen,I have at last found the word I was looking for;- Logop?§de…*logopaedic* more commonly..Speech and Language Therapists… And yes, you are right, people who normally stutter do have less trouble when singing..
They seem then to have less *inhibitations*.. according to our friend… There is no *cure*,at least for adults..
For better pronuctiation, he advises a simple trick….. very slowly… and with accentuated lip movement..
…….. coooo caaaa coooo laaaa…… and using this method… for all sylables in the words that she may have difficulty with… He says that it is sometimes a *lazyness* in the movement of the mouth which can impede the pronuntion of certain words which could become a habit…
Here is something I found on the web..
>>>Blessed Notker of St. Gall (ca. 840‚Äì912), called Balbulus (‚ÄúThe Stutterer‚Äù) and described by his biographer as being “delicate of body but not of mind, stuttering of tongue but not of intellect, pushing boldly forward in things Divine,” was invoked against stammering.
sorry a part of my last comment is missing…
“As I once said (in another Post) we can find help and comfort for nearly all minor and major *problems* in the Bible,and other associated books… The Talmud interprets Bible passages to indicate Moses was also a stutterer, and that placing a burning coal in his mouth had caused him to be “slow and hesitant of speech” (Exodus 4, v.10—) which brings us back to *religion*
have a good evening all
PS. Germany is in the final of the European Championship.. they just beat Turkey 3-2..
Greetings all. Migraines are much improved. Thanks to all, young/old, tall/small for your Rosaries: they really helped!
Mel Tillis is the country & western singer who stuttered. For the record, so did the actor James Earl (“Darth Vader”) Jones until at least his college days. Speech therapists are wonderful people, in my experience, very understanding and very creative as well. I would approach this whole area with a great deal of faith and hope, and expect wonderful results.
Good luck to Germany, Sandra. I presume this regards “football” or soccer, yes? Who do they play next?
Best regards, dear friends,
Jerry
Glad to hear the migranes are impoved! We’ll continue though, as it can’t hurt.
Not sure if anyone is following the recent stuff with the Supreme Court now, but it’s certainly a very interesting situation going on and one that I wish I had more time to really think about in terms of the moral/ethical catholic theology viewpoint regarding the whole thing.
Its a tough one for me to reconcile with the faith in a way, even though I know there are some instances where we can (however clearly they would be nearly impossible to meet) support the death penalty, I must pray harder to fight my gut reaction that a crime of the kind spoken of here, is one that I feel does warrant death.
In fact, it would be more humane really. Because in the case of this particular criminal action, the man would be far better off dead than found out as a …… can’t even say it, makes me so ill to,,, as his fellow inmates would make life worse than any hell for them they could even find in a novel. So, maybe death would be better for such criminals considering that. I don’t know. I do know, I see that as my biggest weak spot regarding the faith. It may be the only thing really, that I have real trouble with agreeing with. But, this means I am wrong, no matter what my gut is saying. Therefore, I know I need to reconcile it.
Great. On the way to the park, we pass Anthony. He says he is not sure about contacting OD because of Sam Brownbeck (I hope I spelled that right) and that he cant stay away from his protestant parish in spite of converting via the help of an OD priest. He said plainly: “I don’t want to be confused, like she is” we all know to whom he is reffering that one to… To kind to say the words, likely fearing the “honor your father and mother” commmand. I just smiled, and said, we should never base an opinion on anything by the actions of one person. Would you leave the Catholic Church if I went apostate, and started my own? Well, then…don’t give up especially since you don’t (I certainly don’t) know any details about his life except what you may read, from who knows what kind of biased slant? Good thing, that happened anyway. We forgot the kite, so we had to turn back anyway.
I must have something against spelling too with 2 o’s today. Sorry.
Yes Helen,I did hear about the *ruling*…. I am (as most of you know) totaly against the *death penalty*
In a way it is shamefull,but on the other hand….. what about all the many priests who have commited the very same crime??? They would also face the same sentence..
Death is so *final*,and as I always say to commit murder is not very much different from commiting a person (pre-meditated) to death…Two wrongs do not make a RIGHT. What if they were inocent It has happend,and will I suppose, do so again untill, we rid ourselves of the self imposed right to commit *Sate sanctioned* murder..
I understand your feelings Helen.. the crime in question is so base and unthinkably disgusting..that words can not describe… My son (middle child)works in the psychological trakt of our prison.. he has a lot to do
(therapy wise) with these offenders + r*pists,murderers etc.Do not get the wrong idea,they are never put together with other inmates… they eat,sleep,and do all other daily chores in a special trakt of the prison.. they have TV.PC.many recreational fascilities… and also learn one or more trades while *Inside*..every medical care imaginable.. So you see, their life is not really *Hell* from that point of view…THAT will come when they finally do die….The real Hell,is in their minds while here on earth… and very welcome to it they are.. IMHO…
Well Jerry,yes soccer.. and just at this moment we know who they play in the final… it is Spain…on Sunday.. Spain has just beaten Russia… 3-0… I do not see much chance for Germany..the spanish team are very good,but have two days longer *pause* so they might just pull it off… I’ll keep you *up-dated*..
Now, I must get my book keeping done… I have to have it ready for tomorrow… it is the the yearly bilanz,
great big urrrgh!!!.. I hope it all *tallies up* the first time… wish me luck..
byeeee 4 now…
PS… Jerry, I also am glad to hear that your migrane is better…
NOW!!!! to the AWFULL task…………. I can put it off no longer……
Jerry-Some good news about migraine:
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/06/26/migraine-zap.html
Helen and Sandra–I’m anti death penalty because the state can’t be trusted to “award” it to the right rascals, and the innocent could suffer. But if there IS one, there’s no reason to confine it to murder. There are worse things yo can inflict on a victim than death. Just yesterday a jury convicted a pervert who inflicted horrific torture on a 24 y.o. student, inviting her to mutilate herself with a knife after he was finished with her, with which she thentried to kill herself. There’s no punishment you can impose on such a depraved creature that would be harsh enough, certainly no harsher had he killed her instead. The poor girl will never be the same.
But the state always seems to manage to screw it up. Imposing death when the crime doesn’t fit it and, worse, NOT imposing it when it does.
Yeah, I imagine hearing the details of some of those child rape cases would make the gentlest of us scream for blood before cooler heads prevail. Better to lock them up and insist we never hear from them again, a civil and social death instead of a physical one. Maybe we can be forgiven though for hoping that another inmate take them out, a la Jeffrey Dahmer.
Arn, yes- I am talking about a horror that warrants death. The Louisiana case. That doctor said he had never seen such damage in all his years as a doctor (he had to repair her body after the rape from her stepfather) and, I dont think I need to tell everyone her age…. I am really sick to my stomach even thinking about that being a thought in a So called human’s mind to do such a thing..
Sandra, here is a bit different than there. They are not always, and in fact rarely seperated for that reason alone (at least not here in the facilities in Chicago) and- they are singled out. Don’t forget- husband spent plenty of years trying to “defend” these lower life forms, and his brother spends all his days trying to lock them up as a cop. LOL. If they are suicidal, or extremely violent, or in medical treatment- they get seperated. Other than that, they are in with the others. And, they are the lowest on the ladder of (forgive me but) scum there, and many go out of their way to “pull a Dahmer” as ARN so rightly recalls happened not that long ago. Do you honestly think the gaurds are going out of their way to “protect” them from this? LOL.
I know the state makes mistakes, and agree another mistake could be not dispensing this punishment when its needed I just am at odds with the very small percentage of possible people who the Church would consider qualify for it. I mean, they would have to be Hitler to qualify.
PS, Sandra- rest assured I do not believe a priest should be held above legal punishment if he is guilty of a crime. Why would I put them in another ‘safe’ position? They would be even more accountable in my mind, and the bible agrees, so we know God will make sure of it.
GO SPAIN! Get those Russians!
Even mental health experts express that they know more now than they did years ago about the tremendous life long damage this crime inflicts on a innocent child victim. Years ago, they got off with a slap. Even now, in our “modern age” an adult victim can expect their attacker to walk in a year and a half (maybe 3 if its really “bad” *barf*) I don’t like asking my husband about some of the cases he was involved with, as it still haunts him to this day. Suffice it to say, he was involved in a small degree, yet labor intensive, on the Gacy case. His case, was not the one that still gives him nightmares, likely because he was only one of the very many working on it. At taxpayer expense. But, the ones he still can’t move on from are the ordinary stories- that he was the sole person involved defending…the “grandfather” who attacked 12 of his grandchildren over the years… and then later, others outside of the family. Many others like that. My husband is convinced, there is no cure for them. The medicines they can take, they wont take, because of the side effects. They will never stop he says. Uncureable. And, once incarcereated, their lives are a threat to others (the weak ones) and a target for abuse (from the ones outraged of their crimes)
So, I am back to square one. Isn’t it better for them to face a death scentence (maybe they would think twice if they knew that was the punishment?) or is it better to let them be a “victim” in incarceration?
Or- hurt someone who is serving their time there?
I have no idea. Frankly, I wonder how they can be human.
Excommunication is like a death scentence as well, really. It may only be a temporary punishment, but if the excommunicated dies while in that state, we have to rely on God’s providence that He will know their heart at the moment of death (just like us all who are not excommunicado) so- if the Church finds a “death scentence” or potential one, to be okay- as it must- why split hairs? I mean, Jesus told us to follow the laws. The Law does not provide for this crime, and we know he loved the little children so much. One could have been stoned for less in the OT, and the God of the OT is the God of the NT?
“I do not believe a priest should be held above legal punishment if he is guilty of a crime.”
Unless the Church formally reintroduces the whole “benefit of clergy” deal, now in this country practiced informally until recently (institution leaning on police, prosecutors etc not to go after clerical molestors) It was once a good idea in anticlerical regimes (Revolutionary France) that would go out of its way to collar a priest for the least thing.
Bringing a priest up on capital charges as might happen if the child rape penalty case passed muster in the SC is hard to imagine, just like using RICO against the RCC which has been considered..
Hello again ARN-
I did not realize we were taliking about a capital offense. That’s my beef basically. Why isn’t it? Treason is, and no loss of life… granted- maybe 50 years ago, but none the less-
Capitol offenses, need to be re-defined in my eyes. Yes, my unrealistic eyes. I think, it will happen one day, when I am not here anymore- but I pray it happens for her lifetime.
It is a murder of the soul, the mind, the body, the spirit, ect. and- it is murder as much as the bible says a lie is tantamount to murder. The liar of lies- he convinces us that evil is good.
Or, in this case- not evil enough.
That should cause a shudder through every parent’s heart.
Mary- pray for us in America, as we look forward to “celebrating” our “freedom”
when we who love your Son, know the ONLY freedom is in your Son, the Risen Lord.
I may fail to be the Catholic I am called to be, I may struggle, and fall- but I will never foget my promise I made to God- and will always- teach my daughter the Catholic faith, and if I have doubts, as I do now, I pray you will be with me to help me through this and that I never be the cause of my child to leave the Church.
I am sorry I am not one that you can be proud of. I am filled with sins. But, I beg you to take her under your emmaculate mantle, and protect her from all that I am not able to on my own.
She needs all the help she can get. She is stuck with me for the moment, as long as God wills it.
Good morning to you all…. nice to see you back on the blog ARN
This is from the NYTimes June 26 2008
Justices Bar Death Penalty for the Rape of a Child
By LINDA GREENHOUSE
The death penalty is unconstitutional as a punishment for the rape of a child, a sharply divided Supreme Court ruled.
Go also to “The 8th.Ammendment”….
This from another link;-
Theory of Retribution
“The theory of retribution rests, in part, on the Old Testament and its call for “an eye for an eye.” Proponents of retribution believe that “the punishment must fit the crime.” According to The New American: “Punishment — sometimes called retribution — is the main reason for imposing the death penalty.”
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also …
Matthew 5,’ ”
(The thing is that the God of the O.T IS the God of the N.T…. But…. we can not pick and chose which parts of the OT.WE want to comply with when it suits… I do not mean you Helen nor any single person just generaly speaking)
“The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.”
“Don’t Ask the Founding Fathers:
The Crimes Act of 1790 not only mandates the death penalty for treason, but also mandates mutilation of the corpse. By contemporary standards, corpse mutilation would certainly be regarded as cruel and unusual. Floggings were also common at the time of the Bill of Rights, but today floggings would be regarded as cruel and unusual. The Eighth Amendment is more clearly affected by societal change than any other amendment in the Constitution, because the very nature of the phrase “cruel and unusual” appeals to evolving societal standards.”
From the article cited above…
Helen you sure have started me off…..
Last day of work…. It’s holliday!!!!!! YES!!!!
I realy need it this year.. phew!!!
Fear not what the one can do that can kill the body, but fear the one that can kill the soul.
Sandra, here in the USA, I am unsure of the last date anyone was scentenced to death for treason, but it was before I was born. Just by a hair I think.
My point being, that treason was a case that did warrant the death penalty here in the USA.
Mutilation of a corpse, with all its facination- is beside the point I am making here, and merely a diversion of topic. Archaic laws, abound.
You have no idea how obtuse they can be here, (unenforced of course)
But, I really don’t think I am that archaic or as Pulp Fiction would say better- mid-evil.
I think it is totally appropriate, to consider that man with the bird-
Don’t do the crime, if you don’t got the time..
Okay, fascination. Its after 3 here, and I just finished ironing. I hate ironing.
Who the heck is “Linda Greenhouse” (makes me think of carbon footprints and emmissions) anyway?
Why the heck should I give a hoot what she says about anything?
Who is she?
Good morning everyone- I wanted to post up a link you may find interesting, considering the subject matter discussed above. It is a uniquely Christian approach (as described by a Canadian author of Jewish background)– about walking with some of today’s “lepers”– it actually began here in my city!
http://www.barbarakay.ca/archive/20050622banishthesin.htm
And a little more reading material for your Friday morning– as I read this book review, I recalled our brief discussion about the “prosperity gospel”. It’s a review of a book written by a Donald Trump show graduate, and his journey of spiritual discovery. Looks like a good read, might pick it up myself for summertime:
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/gut_check/
Helen,Linda Greenhouse is the author of the article in the NYTimes I mentioned…I tried to post the link but it did not go through?? I will try again…
If you can’t do the time don’t commit the crime…. yes I agree, but more of an incentive schould be, to follow Christ’s words, “love thy neighbourgh as thy self”… One would not (normally)abuse one’s self??
The link you give Michelle, is very good,I have only one slight,objection… lepers do not intentionally inflict their ailment upon others… apart from that yes,the /untoutchables /undesirables,are shunned by society.. I would like to say,that I feel the same pitty towards the ped*philes,but that would not be really true.. I am sorry,perhaps I should, but it is not (at least completely) in my nature… not even as a Christian knowing that I should… I have the greatest admiraton for those who can… The work my son does in this field I personally could not do.. I would not be able to disguise my disgust,not specifically of the person (all though I am not sure of that either), but mostly of the *crime*.. As a mother / grandmother I must admit to having very strong fears if one of those *criminals* were to live in the vicinity of my grandchildren.. sorry but that is I expect not so very uncommon,which,again does not make it right!!!
Well, “school is out for the summer” I have 4 wonderfull weeks holliday………Yeeeeeee-es,a double
“last date anyone was scentenced to death for treason, ”
Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, put to death in 1953.
I think kidnap for ransom, like treason, is also one of the few crimes outside murder that can get you put to death. Although I haven’t heard of anyone charged with it.
“I hate ironing.”
I LUV ironing! Like folding laundry, it’s one of the few chores you can do sitting down (at least the way I do it).
Sandra–Yes, yes school’s out… For all us here with school age kids, this is where the work really starts. And we’re still knocking ourselves out getting Eldest set up. He starts work the night of June 30 and his apartment is still depressingly unfurnished. (Sleeps in bedroll on bare floor, IOW camping out)
Right ARN….. you asked for it……… my ironing is in the post tomorrow…..
Like Helen, I do most definately abhor ironing…
Your comment about getting your eldest set up.. reminds me of, when Gabriele left home (to work for ministery of defence in D?ºsseldorf).. Lots of *back and forth* carting furnishings,decorating,and ofcourse the little subject of;- deposit for the appartment + 3months rent in advance… happy memories indeed..
My sympathies…
At least with daughters you usually do not have to keep *popping in* to de-contaminate the freezer,and other such *health risks*… strange though it may seem,the ammount of laundry we have to deal with appears to grow… with every vist…
The little *perks* of parenthood…
Now it’s my turn to have problems getting the blog to accept my posts!
Here’s a tiny bit of an interview in Piazza del Popolo about the filming of Angels and Demons in Rome:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz/2008/06/19/eccleston.italy.angels.and.demon.cnn
Been very busy here closing up shop at the university before heading off for Sweden tomorrow.
The death penalty is a big topic, and I think that there is a good deal of confusion out there regarding it. Obviously, one wants to see it within the tradition of the Church’s teaching in such a way that the most recent statements are not in any meaningful opposition with the previous teachings. The papal government of Rome, after all, was executing criminals right up until the time that government was overthrown in the last 19th century, and some of the most traditionally Catholic (and pro-life) countries have, in much more recent memory, been among the most reluctant to let go of the death penalty. Clearly, this is not just a vestige of the Old Testament.
Helen, what does Sam Brownback have to do with someone’s conversion to Catholicism and with Opus Dei? I think I am missing a part of that story.
Yes, Sandra, Spain looked strong, but… didn’t someone once define soccer as a sport in which two teams play and Germany wins?!
The Rosenbergs, yes.- that was it. I did not know about kidnapping with ransom demands, but that just bolsters the case for allowing the death penalty for cases where murder is not the crime.
I have to say I agree with Sandra that I know that my feelings about these criminals are not in line with what we are taught to be/react to such things, and not a very christian response I suppose. I can’t help it.
Well, it doesn’t matter as they ruled on it anyway. So, it seems Louisiana’s response is “fine, we will simply make a law saying if you do that crime, you will be chemically castrated” so- here we go again- maybe death would be better. I am invisioning a hannibal lector type that would result from such a procedure.
Just saw your post after I submitted mine Father,
Praying you have a safe journey to Sweden.
Not a thing to do with conversion to the catholic faith, as he is a born and “bread” (sorry for the bad pun) Catholic! Very devout. Its just that he gave me Sam’s example of why he is better off not to get back “into” OD (he was at some retreats- and recollections, not a member) when he goes to teach in Spain for a year.
I thought it was a lousy reason. You see, his mother attends protestant services as she feels the Mass isn’t “doing it for her” and needs the “spiritual boost” she feels she gets there.
He thinks that is wrong, and I guess he is trying to compare Sam to this situation. Apparently he likes to do the same.
confusion Father? Not me certainly! LOL. I admit, to total confusion regarding the whole thing.
Father, you looked great! The man representing hollywood- what a bad hair day he had going on.
The way the CCC reads (2266,2267) I think it could be argued that there is no way to protect society from them. Its not as if anyone can assure it.
And, yes Sandra- I agree we should turn the other cheek, (no where does it say you must turn the other cheek on behalf of a child. but the bible is only against murder. Murder is the killing of *innocents* not, the killing of guilty people. Its not like Jesus tried to stop them from killing the good thief because He forgave him.
Helen I ( as you will see in my comment), can / could not forgive such a crime.. The passage I cited was neither to promote nor to de-mote capitol punishment… it was to emphasize,that the prevention of such crimes must allways be better than having to punish…. after the fact..
)
Father Wauck,I am afraid I can not open the video, the article I had allready read…
The question I have is, Has the Vatican given it’s *OK* to the film about Mary,which I recently read about..?
Have a safe journey…
Of course the death penalty is and was not just a “vestige” of the Old Testament…
Heretics,*witches* not to forget adulteresses, were also sentened to death,with referance to the New Testament. And that not sooo very long ago either..
*Corporal Punishment* also includes other forms of Physical punishments.. St.Augustine, advised “beating of the wife” for diverse *short comings*, also, a number of other penalties incl. To be kept on “berad and water” for a number of days… (sorry Helen,I just could not resist that one
I do not recallect THAT being part of Christ’s teachings in any part of the New Testament??… Thank goodness that those “recommendations”, have now been done away with…
PS. Yes you are right about Germany… they allways seem to have so much luck.. in the tournaments.. but I don’t think so this time…
Anyway my favorite sport is Moter racing (Formula 1) I will be watching it (on TV.) in London next Sunday.. It takes place in Silverstone..
Forza Hammilton!!!
Good night all
Just very quiclky… Jerry have you heard of a divice called TMS ? It is yet to be aproved by the Medical Board.. but is supposed to be a revolution for the treatment of Migrane,as no medicament is involved there are no side effects… I heard about this tonight on TV. CNBC.. I hope it can help you ….
Sorry it should read >>> DEVICE
Sandra, that is all good and fine if you are dealing with a entire christian nation, all in accord in their interpretations…
Alas, you are expecting all persons to hold a christian standard to the matter. If this were only true, that crime may not be so prevelant right?
So, its unrealistic to expect that all persons should be thinking in christian terms. What do we do with the persons we pray for daily who are not, and do not agree?
I hope you are enjoying your well deserved time off. I hear you guys get 3 weeks a year. People here are very blessed to be able to get and use 2. (I realize, in your job, its likely the summer, as teachers have here also) but, it must still be a very nice break no matter.
I’m sorry, but the sound of a device, especially in bold does scare me. Hopefully, its not nearly as sinister as it sounds. I have some memories, though faded a bit of having migranes, but its been so long. All I recall was feeling like even opening my eyes, was tantamount to severe torture. It really is a very painful ordeal to endure.Sounds, light- even moving- intolerable. I was told I got them from eating too much chinese food from my aunt. I have been very suspicious of chinese products since then.
Corporal punishment is not what the supreme court was discussing, but I promise you Sandra, I will tell them about naughty naughty former pagan Augustine, if it ever does come up.
Morning…. I need a few days to get accustomed to being able to stay in bed a little longer….
……… just in time for the start of my holls………it’s rainig *cats and dogs*. Good that I have 4 weeks off
device… yes it does sopund scarry but I was (and still am), lost for another word..
It is a small ‘gadget’ which sends tiny impulses to the back of the head.. it is supposed to, if applied just as the migrane is starting, fend off an attack???
Ah!!! Helen, you little d*vil,Corporal punshment,well what could be more ‘bodily’ than, taken by force, to be put ‘bodily’, to death??
As for Augustine, he was of course not alone in ‘recommending’ many such ‘penitances’..
The ‘Bu?übuch Hubertense’, named after the place of discovery..St. Hubert Monastry in the Ardenen.. has a whole book of them.. It seems that many of the Bishops,and other Church fathers felt the ‘urge’ to write a library full of ‘Books of Penitances’, each trying to ‘out do the other’ in severity..
But that is another matter,as I gladly stated, those practices are ‘out dated’… At least ‘officialy’
On a more lighter note… When does your daughter start school again after the summer break??
Do they have the same kind of celebrations as we do here in Germany….. the kids look forward to it so much,
The get a “Schult?ºte” in form of a giant cone filled with goodies and presents.. some are taller than the child it’s self.. I will send a photo of some to you, it is sooo funny to see the child trying so hard to keep hold of it.. as allways traditions seem to get out of hand,exageration / competition in all things.. (My child’s is bigger than yours)not really the best of examples to set our children.. but then that’s life, easier to buy a great big “Schult?ºte” than to take more time off from ones hobbies, to invest in their every day needs.. Oooops!!! this was supposed to be a “lighter note” ………
I’ll get on with my ironing now… seeing as it is raining I can not do much else.. I will look on it as a ‘penance’ for being naughty.. again!!! We have a saying here the essence of which is;- St.Petrus smiles down upon us when it is good weather,and is anoyed at us when it rains.. So,I take it I was naughty.. (my reference to Augustine)…AGAIN.
Byeeeee for now have a great day..
Ironing. Yuck, sorry to hear that.
Just got back from her swim class, and off to see Walle (however they spell it) at the movie place by us as soon as the husband returns from the Church wedding of a friend’s friend.
One mother there, inflicting some odd punishment on her 2 year old son, by calling him a “liar” for being to scared to go in the water, and when he cried, she threw him in. My child was absolutely in shock. Of course, the management there asked her to please, not throw him in by force. She promptly left, yelling all the way out the door. horrible. Little one said, maybe he was nervous because he was the littlest one there.
Thats a nice way to look at it. I was thinking its possible being verbally assualted and falsely accused was the reason, but what do I know.
4 weeks only? Too bad its not the summer like here for most of the teachers who opt not to teach summer school.
Anyway Sandra, I just like to go back and forth with you on Augustine, its quite fun. No mercy for him at all huh? We sing at Mass–… His mercy endures forever…
Luckily, it will not be any of us to judge his heart.
No, and I will not tell her about this giant cone filled with treats, as I think that would be a “temptation” for her to want to start as a “tradition” (oh, those traditions of men again,,,lol) and I think we have plenty already. It would be interesting to see however. No, we have many summer activities here though- and I admit I even put up some 4th of July stuff this year (I dont always, nor do I make a big deal of it)
Its kinda hard for me to say we are FREE when abortion is still legal here. Apparently, free for some, not all of God’s children. But, I don’t like to open the door to bashing the US so I will leave it there.
The real question is, does ARN’s son have an upgrade from camping status?
Poem on Opus Dei members.
We are Christians because we are devoted to Escriva pictures.
We are Christians because we have Plastic Donkeys in our houses.
We are Christians because we know everything about Escriva, his sistess, his partenrs, his cousins.
We are Christians because we know everything about Escriva food attitude.
We are Christians because we cook burritos in fron of Escriva Pictures.
We are Christians because we look at the watch 24 hours a day.
We are Christians becase we wear cilices
We are Christians because we pray n Latin.
Are we Christians?
Yes Helen, our school is also shut-down for 6.1/2 weeks but we take children for the last 3weeks,as, of course not many parents can have such long hollidys from work.. I have so much ‘over-time’ + ‘old hollidays’ from last year that I have to take now.. I still have at least 1 week ‘over-time’ left so will have 2weeks in Autum instead of just 1… We will be gong to Denmark then.. as it is so very lovely at that time of year no matter what weather.. We say;- “There is no such thing as ‘bad weather’ just ‘bad (choice of)clothing’.. which, is a point of view I expect
) I must (a grandmother’s pride raising it’s nasty head) report, that Richard’s oldest (16) Marlo, has an A+ in Latin..(he is the one who went to Catholic Mass with me not long ago). We may make a Catholic of him yet 
sorry to be so flipant..
Now I must get ready fot to go to my son’s as the children are awaiting their end of term “Report money” another ‘tradition’ which also seems to grow. But,in our case I have allready (from the begining) made a ‘contract’ whith the grandchildren in which the results of each subject is ‘tabulated’… cool calculation on my part… he,he…. By the way they also get money deducted for results which are not as good as the previous year… in most cases that does not happen, but just to give a small incentive (and to save me money
Well all of you have a very good Sunday…
ARN. don’t worry,the kids get on just fine, we, are the ones who worry too much about them having,enough to eat,and a nice cossy bed… they have a lot more (for them) immportant things on their minds… for example;->when is the next party,who is the ‘hunkiest’ in the class,and how do I compair
Oh!!! Just read ‘Poet’s Comment ……….
It,don’t ‘rhym’ !!!!!!
And not really very ‘original’
Poet, one,and only one response from me………….(non OD memmber)
We’ve heard it all before…
Try again
How about, ‘We are Christians because’;- WE beliveve in Christ???? That would be a good ‘opening line’..
Allthough your time is your own,you should use it more ‘constructively’…
Have a nice day…
ARN, I’m sorry but the last comment to you did not ALL go through..
I wrote “just kiding… All will be fine,believe me, I have been through it 3 times.. All three survived
My nerves….only just!!!
Correction to 2nd to last comment…..
“We believe in Christ” not ” beliveve” sorry…
I am just watching the *Reading of the Angelus* on TV. by Pope Benedikt…
And,as it happens… “in Latin”
Poem on John Wauck.
I am Christian because with my writings I convince people to escape the Christian religion.
I am Christian because I love walking throuhg viale Bruno Buozzi.
I am Christian because I say what the mighty Opus elite tells me.
I am Christian because I want to convince you that Opus Dei is a Chrsitian prelature.
Poem on Johny Wauck, I am Christian because with my writings I convince people to escape the Christian religion. I am Christian because I love walking throuhg viale Bruno Buozzi. I am Christian because I say what the mighty Opus elite tells me. I am Christian because I want to convince you that Opus Dei is a Chrsitian prelature.
Poems on consructive time.
I spend my time whipping myself, I am a Saint!
I spend my time whpping at my ass, I am a Sanit!
I spend my time eating fried Escriva food, I am a Saint!
As the saying goes, DFTT.
(e.g., Don’t feed the trolls. If the term “troll” is unfamiliar, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll).
We can always pray for them, though, since we’re commanded to.
But hey… plastic Donkeys? Can I have one?
Poet, the first thing that people in a sect learn is to avoid talking about the truth. It was done in the Soviet Union and in Cuba. Poet read the Story of the Criminal Enrico de Pedisi about this in Italian so you can evaluate the truth.
Enrico de Pedis ?® stato ucciso a colpi di arma da fuoco in un agguato a Roma nei pressi di Campo de’ Fiori. L’uccisione di Enrico De Pedis va catalogata tra i regolamenti di conti tra “ex compari”. De Pedis, al contrario degli altri appartenenti alla banda, fu l’unico a possedere uno spirito imprenditoriale fuori dal comune. Mentre gli altri sperperavano i propri bottini nei loro vizi, “Renatino” investiva in attivit?† legali tali proventi: imprese edili, ristoranti, boutique.
averlo fatto cadere in una imboscata con un pretesto. Altro smacco questo, che non si poteva sopportare.
Enrico De Pedis ha ricevuto una sepoltura del tutto inusuale per un comune cittadino, che risulta ancora pi?? sorprendente trattandosi di un criminale: la sua tomba infatti si trova all’interno della cripta della basilica di Sant’Apollinare a Roma; solo alla moglie viene consentito l’accesso.
Il 6 marzo 1990, a soli 32 giorni dalla morte, il rettore della basilica, monsignor Piero Vergari, attest?? con una lettera lo status di grande benefattore di De Pedis: “Si attesta che il signor Enrico De Pedis nato in Roma – Trastevere il 15/05/1954 e deceduto in Roma il 2/2/1990, ?® stato un grande benefattore dei poveri che frequentano la basilica ed ha aiutato concretamente a tante iniziative di bene che sono state patrocinate in questi ultimi tempi, sia di carattere religioso che sociale. Ha dato particolari contributi per aiutare i giovani, interessandosi in particolare per la loro formazione cristiana e umana”.
Dopo 4 giorni l’allora Vicario della diocesi di Roma, presidente della Conferenza Episcopale Italiana, il cardinale Ugo Poletti, rilasciava il nulla osta alla sepoltura di De Pedis all’interno della basilica di Sant’Apollinare. Il 24 aprile la salma di De Pedis venne tumulata e le chiavi del cancello vennero consegnate alla vedova.
Jerry, didn’t you get yours yet? I not only have plastic donkeys, but Isis trading cards (still trying to complete the entire set) a ton of graven images, (Images R Us is my kinda place!) and no Catholic would be Catholic without the Mithra Mysteries home game. I know, I could have gone all out, and built an altar for burnt offerings but I am new at the whole Catholic thing so I am still working on getting a nice one, not too ornate to suit my false worship needs.
Inspired by something, I read Matt 5:44 and decided I will have to repeat this one prior to posting in my mind.
They made Escriuva Saint so I would not be surprised if they make De Pedis Saint.
monsignor Piero Vergari, attest?? con una lettera lo status di grande benefattore di De Pedis: ‚ÄúSi attesta che il signor Enrico De Pedis nato in Roma – Trastevere il 15/05/1954 e deceduto in Roma il 2/2/1990, ?® stato un grande benefattore dei poveri che frequentano la basilica ed ha aiutato concretamente a tante iniziative di bene che sono state patrocinate in questi ultimi tempi, sia di carattere religioso che sociale. Ha dato particolari contributi per aiutare i giovani, interessandosi in particolare per la loro formazione cristiana e umana‚Äù.
Just to remember, De Pedis was the chief of banda della Magliana, a band of assassins who controled the drug trade, the prostitution trade and who killed many people. So Monsigonor your words are crap!
The mortification continues.
The truth continues. This were the exact number used by the Monsignor
Through all the earth their voice resounds, and to the ends of the world, their message. Psalm 19:5
This, of course is the voice of the Christian faithful, which includes the peace loving, truth speaking Father John Wauck, and if anyone has an issue with that, they must not be one of us, nor were they ever.
Helen,Hi!
… Aaah those *heathen gods*… 
I have just noticed that my last response to you did not completely go through..
I am in agreement with your feelings about the child in the swimming pool…
One should always try to respect the feelings of others, this of course applies to children as well as adults..
It is IMHO a sign of incompetence to deal with a situation,when one has to resort to such methods..
To riddicle ANYONE in public is shamefull.. Worse still when the person can not retaliate..
Another such shamefull behaviour, is to vent ones anger,anonymously,on a person,or his / her beliefs or character,This is not only shamefull but cowardly…
We were, as I previously wrote, visiting my son yesterday… I’m afraid I paid too much ‘devotion’ to Bachus… so I am paying for it with a slight *headache*
Have a nice evening all…
Tisk Tisk, blaming Bacchus when in fact, it was the *Checkus Bookus* that likely spawned the hangover Sandra.
Hoping their grades were what you prayed for LOL. Just kidding, a little. *insert evil laughter now*
Seriously, its not fun and I am sorry, but glad you had fun (while it lasted).
By the way, I missed you on our online plastic donkey races at false religion.com today. We all missed you dearly, but I figured out how to get the caldroun going to mix up some delightful things for us all today since you abandoned us.
Its very possible that Father needs to consider another topic now, as I fear his friends viewing may take all the shennanigans here too seriously.
PS, for the record, I agree with Sandra’s sentiments regarding the newest guest here. Who, like a terrorist, comes and spews on his Hosts.
Take that any way you will all.
Father, praying you are finding Sweden to be a place of welcome, even though its country has not been the nicest (considers Finns low scum) to all people.
monsignor Piero Vergari, attest?? con una lettera lo status di grande benefattore di De Pedis: ‚ÄúSi attesta che il signor Enrico De Pedis nato in Roma – Trastevere il 15/05/1954 e deceduto in Roma il 2/2/1990, ?® stato un grande benefattore dei poveri che frequentano la basilica ed ha aiutato concretamente a tante iniziative di bene che sono state patrocinate in questi ultimi tempi, sia di carattere religioso che sociale. Ha dato particolari contributi per aiutare i giovani, interessandosi in particolare per la loro formazione cristiana e umana‚Äù. Is that true? disgusiting, an assassin as Enrico de Pedis. I am sorry for Helen and Sandra that in front of the truth escape talking about different things. Helen just face the words of Monsignor Vrgari and do nto scape the issue.
Greetings from Stockholm. Hope everyone will keep this country in their prayers. The work of Opus Dei is still very young here and in Finland (there are no centers yet in Norway or Denmark).
Sandra, I´m afraid I don´t know about that film on the Virgin Mary. Do you remember the title?
I will try to put up a new post from here on the Pauline Year that has just begun.
Father Wauck,so good of you to find time for us all..
The title of the Film has slipped my memmory.. but as far as I know the Vatican ‘Minister for Culture’ (?)
has given ‘offical’ ok… and will advise on the subject of the film.
Looking forward to ‘The Pauline Year’ post… (favourite Saint) ..
Best wishes for your intentions / a safe and speedy journey back..
Must get out into the garden for a little idle enjoyment….aaaaaaaaaah!!!
Good idea, a movie about the life of the killer De Pedis who after a life of all crimes was bruied under the church like a Saint. it’s not a joke, you can check!
monsignor Piero Vergari, attest?? con una lettera lo status di grande benefattore di De Pedis: ‚ÄúSi attesta che il signor Enrico De Pedis nato in Roma – Trastevere il 15/05/1954 e deceduto in Roma il 2/2/1990, ?® stato un grande benefattore dei poveri che frequentano la basilica ed ha aiutato concretamente a tante iniziative di bene che sono state patrocinate in questi ultimi tempi, sia di carattere religioso che sociale. Ha dato particolari contributi per aiutare i giovani, interessandosi in particolare per la loro formazione cristiana e umana‚Äù. Is that true? disgusiting, an assassin as Enrico de Pedis. I am sorry for Helen and Sandra that in front of the truth escape talking about different things. Helen just face the words of Monsignor Vrgari and do nto scape the issue.
Soo many bad news like the new case of the pedohile priest today in Italy.
QUEL PASTICCIACCIO BRUTTO DEL PRETE PEDOFILO ARRESTATO A ROMA – GI?Ä UN ANNO FA SI PRESE UN MESE DI SOSPENSIONE PER GLI STESSI MOTIVI
Rory Cappelli e Anna Maria Liguori per “La Repubblica”
Prometteva loro regali. Cd, dvd, capi d´abbigliamento. Anche soldi. Li faceva cenare o pranzare a casa sua. Li invitava a dormire, a volte in gruppo e poi ne sceglieva uno e lo portava in camera per abusare di lui. Ne approfittava in oratorio o durante i campi estivi organizzati con la parrocchia in luoghi di montagna. Oppure, persino, offriva ripetizioni private in materie in cui erano carenti.
Sceglieva ragazzini fragili, tutti maschi e minorenni (dagli 11 ai 16 anni), con situazioni familiari problematiche o particolarmente gravi. Era questa la tattica di Ruggero Conti, 55 anni, il parroco della chiesa della Nativit?† di Santa Maria Santissima di via di Selva Candida, nella periferia di Roma, a due passi dal Centro di prima accoglienza minorile di Casal di Marmo. Un prete molto noto nella capitale tanto che il sindaco di Roma Gianni Alemanno lo aveva scelto in campagna elettorale, insieme ad altri otto esperti (come l¬¥immunologo Fernando Aiuti, il generale Mario Mori, l¬¥attore Luca Barbareschi, il regista Pasquale Squitieri), quale garante per le politiche della periferia e della famiglia.
?à stato arrestato ieri mattina con un ordine di custodia cautelare emesso dal gip Andrea Vardaro su richiesta del pm Francesco Scavo, eseguito dai carabinieri del nucleo investigativo di Roma diretto dal maggiore Lorenzo Sabatino. L¬¥accusa ?® di violenza sessuale continua e aggravata
Glad to hear the legs of Opus Dei are growing in Finland and in Sweden.
Sandra, do you remember my gardening tip from last year for you? Hint: they are stored in a carton..(mostly)
My interest has waned over the last few years, but the bunnies have been “helping” me out by eating a good amount of my beautiful flowers. Less to water I suppose. I let the grass go brown these days also. Its a horrible waste of water. Also using less toxic chemicals that give rise to a multitude of illnesses.
People should just relax a bit about their curb appeal, and spend more time and money on their families than their lawns IMHO.
The only thing I am escaping in this thread is the vile comments posted by heretics.
Oh yes Helen…
I agree,I have a load of herbs in the garden and I let them grow “willie-nillie”.. I try not to have too many plants in potts, so that I don’t have to use sooo much water.. The ones I do have (in potts), are covered with *Hydrokultur* = hydroponics (little terracotta coloured pebbles)… they preserve the water (and dew) so need less watering.. I also use them indoors.
Lavender,Tymian, (Thyme?) Sage,Origano, Majoran, Basil, Mint, Lemon-melisse,all blume so lovely and smell so nice, that you don’t really need many flowers,plus they are useful for cooking.. I have rose bushes that I only have to water if it is very hot for long periods..
Apart from that my garden is more or less a *natural oasis* amidst the very orderly *german style* gardens arround me… but that is how I like it…
It is also less work,more time to enjoy the garden, while watching others *cultivate* theirs
Ironing is all done… new pile is growing again.. aaah, the bliss of being a housewife..
We are writing facts that you can find in any newspaper. It’s sad and disgusting to read the words of this Helen that talks about vile comments when we say that a pedohiple priest was arrested in Rome and when we write word by word the exact sentences used to explain why the Criminal De Pedis was buried under a church. People like Helen are the one you find ina ny country, the women that when a priest get arrested for crimes tstart to say it’s heretic and try to find any way to avoid the issue.
Well We are writing facts that you can find in any newspaper. It’s sad and disgusting to read the words of this Helen that talks about vile comments when we say that a pedohiple priest was arrested in Rome and when we write word by word the exact sentences used to explain why the Criminal De Pedis was buried under a church. People like Helen are the one you find ina ny country, the women that when a priest get arrested for crimes tstart to say it’s heretic and try to find any way to avoid the issue.
ENOUGH!!!!
Sico,You are the one I feel is avoiding the “issue”…
Are you disgusted with the TERRIBLE crime… Or, are you, as so many … Just *anti* priests,*anti* Catholic Church.. The Pope recently gave his veiws on this matter while in the USA.. Did you miss THAT newspaper article??
If you had taken the trouble to read the comments allready posted on this subject,instead of wasting your time repeating Newspper articles (which in your own words ANYONE of us can find in said newapapers),you would know the opioinon concerning such *crimes*, of, not only Helen,but ALL of us here….
You are (excuse the term) *flogging a dead horse*
If you belong to the “anti Catholic Church” movement, may I suggest that you would find a lot more ‘open ears’ for your ‘triades’, on one of their blogs.. and would be more than wellcome..
Please try to confine yourself to commenting in a civilized tone… you would be taken more seriously..
By the way,Helen is most certainly not a person who would avoid ANY issue.. so, climb down from your high horse…
If you would like to point to a cartain article do so …using a link…. you get your point over, it is much less strenuous for all of us.
Not everything in the newspaper is NEWS, the one you refere to is,as terrible as it may be, ‘old hat’ it’s been arround for DECADES… and by the way.. has, in parts, been commented on here… *The Vatican Bank Scandal*… (ascociated with the ‘Calvi’ scandal)…
In the way that, we would not convict a murderer’s whole family to death,neither can we convict the whole Catholic Church… think about it!!!
Webkinz world finally gave me a reply to my request they add the ability for the pets to worship at whatever religious denom they choose. Their reply was that they have no intention of offering such an option now or in future. So, I simply bought a room for them for prayer, but with no Cross, or bible or any other items to add to the room its really just odd. I wish a Christian company could do a mirror site, it could be great for cathesis of young children.
The following is speculation from a very astute Catholic that I recieved in an e-mail, and don’t think will be a problem posting here for some that should give it thought.
In the fourth trumpet, a third of the Catholic clergy fell morally, paving the way for the fifth trumpet, Protestantism. The torture of five months is a spiritual torture, five great stings of spiritual wrath for each Sacraement that formal heretics deprive their victims of, and who exercise on their victims, the material heretics, persons who are truly humble and fear Rome and its fathers because of their sins, and hence, not trusting the true Church, they are led into the terror of sola scriptura and the wrath of the formal heretics.
These formal heretics are driven according to pride and anger and use the scandal of the RCC as a weapon against it, the true Church nonetheless, despite the sins of some of its fathers. The formal heretic, scandalized by hypocritical bishops, is driven by the seduction of the dragon, who instigated Protestantism as the final stage of supernatural goodness, to pave the way for the loss of Christendom and the beginning of the apostasy from the supernatural way of life.
Behold, there are five sacraments lost in heresy, and the Calvinist, the prototype monster of spiritual torture, uses the antithesis of these five sacraments as weapons of torture on the innocent Calvinists, the ones who live humbly, and in fear of whether their salvation is even possible. Hence, the five stings of scorpion torture on the material heretics:
I. Anti-Confession: You can NEVER be forgiven of your serious sin. You have committed the unforgivable sin, the mark of the beast, the blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
II. Anti-Eucharist: You are GUILTY of the Body and Blood of the Lord, and so are condemned, as the Apostle saith.
III. Anti-Confirmation: You are CONFIRMED in damnation, predestined for eternal wrath.
IV. Anti-Holy Orders: there is no formal Apostolic Succession that is guaranteed to infallibly interpret Scripture, and so you can only HOPE that your particular community is the one that faithfully interprets the only Word of God, the Written Word. Therefore, cower in fear, for the chances are that you misinterpret the Word, to your own damnation.
V. Anti-Annointing of the Sick: therefore, seeing as you are a vessel fitted for wrath, and there is no hope for you, seeing as you have committed the unforgivable sin, and are predestined to hell, unforgivable, so then, take up your annointing unto damnation, pathetic creature, and enjoy what little time you have left on this earth before you pass into the fires that never end. Therefore, eat, fornicate, drink and indulge, for when it is through, ye shall pass into the fires that you deserve.
Heavy stuff. I think it may help some here who are obsessed with illogical thought, drawing irrational conclusions and attempting to, albeit weakly- denigrade the Church and its members.
Did anyone else get free tickets to the movie Fireproof? I did. It’s supposed to have a very christian theme on marriage.
Hey gang– wonderful Zenit interview with Fr. THomas Rosica (of Salt and Light TV) on his impressions of the Eucharistic Congress:
http://www.zenit.org/article-23076?l=english
Sandra, is this “movie” you are talking about the one I posted on way back on June 12?
here is the link again if you missed it http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/blog.cfm?id=241
Michelle- I agree with this applying here also n(just replace the word Quebec with any city here)
Father Rosica: The real problem in Quebec has been the spiritual void created by a religious and cultural rupture, a significant loss of memory, bringing in its wake a family crisis and an educational crisis, leaving citizens disoriented, unmotivated and destabilized.
I also got a kick out of the Muslim’s reaction, (that could be taken in a negative way if one looks at things that way) He may have been implying that either a forbidden food or alcohol was involved, but I happen to think its more likely he witnessed firsthand the power of the christian faithful gathering together to adore Christ as a community standing up for Jesus in the world, unashamed.
Evening Micelle,nice to hear from you again..
I watched the Congress on-line thanks to your link… I’m afraid not all of it,but the parts I did were inspiring.. thanks again for that link..
Helen… YES!!! that’s the one.. I read about it in the NYTimes.. It was part of an article about :-
“Religion and the Media”,Movies,TV debates, Books etc.
The movie “The Nativity” (I have it on DVD) still moves me to tears… Mary was depicted in that one as being,
*very human* just like the girl next door.. enjoying her family life albeit very humble.. I still watch it now and again..
Of course movies are made to be *comercial* so we expect a little “stretching of the immagination” but, all in all a good movie IMHO..
Now I’m off to bed… night,night………….
Oooops Sorry Michelle… miss-typed your name…
gotta get t’bed….
byeeeeeeeeeeee
Glad to hear it Sandra. I thought that was what you were referencing all along!
It’s good to know Holy Father is on a so-called break now (meaning, he never gets one) and we can look forward to a part 2 of Jesus of Nazereth! I can hardly wait. I will be buying it as soon as I can get a copy.
Someone I know is at St Elizabeth’s hospital in Appelton Wi right now. Heart attack.
Helen,I am sure all our thoughts and prayers are with you..
keep positive..
xxx sandra xxx
Helen, I will pray for your friend at St. E’s. Together we can accomplish much in our prayers, but the One whose Heart beats for us can and will do all things.
All, I’m headed out in the morning to go “home,” which for me is Westminster Choir College, a professional school of music in Princeton, NJ, to teach a short intensive course in choral rehearsal methods. I’m excited by the opportunity to give back to a place that gave me so very very much; keep me please in your prayers. I will try to get online as I’m able to let you know how things are going during the week, and with a little luck I may be able to go up to the Aquinas Institute (the OD residence, I think, in Princeton) for Mass. At the end of the week I head over to meet with and talk to my publishers at GIA Music in Chicago, before taking the train back to Ann Arbor a week from Monday.
Other news is also good: I’ve received an appointment to the faculty of music at Wayne State University in Detroit, teaching music theory (I and III this fall, II and IV in the winter term). In this case, being a composer as well as a conductor appears to have worked in my favor for a change. So pray for my poor students, who don’t know quite yet what’s going to hit them, come September.
And know that I continue to hold all of you in my prayers as well.
Congratulations Jerry, I am pleased for you..
I hope all works out for you at thr College, have a pleasent time.. I also, will be away next week (9th.July – 17 July) so,I must get things *ship-shape* here, before leaving Ivano to his own devices.. ie’ at least 1 clean shirt per day,underwear,socks,etc. …. all of which will be waiting (in…or should I say. ‘just outside’ laundry basket) for my return..
I wish you all a great weekend..
Thinking of you Helen……..
PS. I made an *awfull* mistake in a previous comment……. Formula 1. Silverstone is this weekend,so I won’t watch it in London…. I will be cheering for Hammilton.. (and of course, my all time favorite David Coultard,his last season on the circuit
)
byeeeeeee 4 now….
Jerry, it all sounds so overwhelming to me, everything you are embarking on now! Such happy news to hear.
Thank you both for the prayers, and those praying. Mom is going to be okay.
I was reading about Jerry’s post, and thinking about how much the Lord is working in him now. It led me to ask many things in my mind, about the gifts God gives us, and graces He gives.
Clearly, some are given much more than others. From what I can see so far in my journey, is that those who are given much- tend to help those lacking before anyone else will.
That is one thing, I have seen in my real life as a “trend” of sorts.
The troubles of the CoE
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2254269/Anglican-bishops-in-secret-Vatican-summit.html
From the above link….
>>The Church of England was never really a part of the mainstream Reformation. Henry VIII was awarded the title Defender of the Faith, by the Pope, for his refutation of Luther’s theses and he remained a Catholic (albeit Head of the Church IN England)until his death.
The advisers to, and manipulators of, Edward VI were concerned with their own, doomed, political survival.
The pragmatic Elizabeth I, whose personal religious conviction was never great, required her Council to find the least dangerous route to removing religion from the political agenda.
The result was a State Church which never had any fundamental religious fervour in its raison d’etre.
Small wonder, then, that it has become drowned in the sea of world-wide fundamental Protestantism into which it has recently waded.
It was originally a parochial church. Its foolish attempt to become Universal has wrought its own destruction.
For the true heirs of Cranmer and Parker, the only option is a return to Rome.
Rowan Williams, who came from outside the CoE, must know this in his hearts of hearts.
oops… the last sentence is missing …
I wrote;-
My sentiments exactly…
Dear Helen I am (as I am sure we all are),so very glad to hear the happy news about yout mom…
I wish her a speedy recovery…
I will see my mother on Wednesday… so lookig forward to that…
Your mother’s illness has reminded me, once again, how precious are our mothers,whose allways ‘being there’ we seem to take for granted… God bless them all………
I wish you all a very,very good Sunday……..
Jerry, I hope you got a chance to go to that Mass you mentioned. Today’s Mass was the most bizzare I ever saw yet, unfortunately. Instead of skipping the Creed from time to time today our priest had a run on homily that was so long, he felt compelled to make his own Creed up from scratch. It went like this: Do you believe in God? The Father Allmighty? Maker of all things? Great!
Then on to the next phase it went. Normally, this would outrage me to no end. But, now I see it differently.
I see that simply flawed humans, even with the best of intentions (we hope) can do things that THEY think are best, and no matter what happens its not them we should be upset with. We must decide once an for all to see the big picture in all these things, no matter the challenge.
Cant post about lesbian “priests” in that communion eh?